Religion: Real or Fake

[SlowwHand]

The same argument can be made for anything. It's a failing of the individual, not a failing on the part of religion. Religion doesn't say "diddle the kiddies", at least none of which I'm familiar.

[giblets]

I see the goalposts moving, moving, moving...

(point was religion and science can co-exist)

Please quote the post in this thread where someone said they couldn't co-exist... the goal-post was never set there.

What makes religion a good way to explain what science can't explain? How does talking about supernatural entities allow for a fuller understanding of love, beauty, etc.?

[giblets]

Religion can actually make us more honest. Research shows that reciting the 10 commandments makes you less likely to lie.

Is it the alleged supernatural origin that is responsible? Did the studies only try making people recite the 10 commandments?

[Kidlicious]

Wrong... scientists are making progress on how the mind works... it's just a matter of time. Your denial is just another lie you like telling yourself so that you can continue to find faith in a myth.

Denial?

Scientists study the brain because that is something they can observe. How you study the mind? You can only speculate that a mind exists and about it's nature by studying the supposed effects on the brain. The truth is that most scientists are still trying to fit the mind into the material universe. The only progress that has been made is that those scientist are probably in denial.

There is no clear path for science in developing a robot with a mind.

[Kidlicious]

Maybe somebody should point that out to the catholic church... It hasn't worked for them, since all they have done is lie about priests diddling little children.

How do you know? As far as I know there is no exception for catholics.

It's all about the individual when it comes to honesty... not religion. And please provide a link to your "research" so that we can all see the actual basis of it, vs just a random sound bite.

tomorrow.

One thing we do know about religion, is that it can turn you into a murderer of those not of your faith.

[/quote]
I think we all have the capability to murder. Religion doesn't turn you into a murderer. You were probably already one.

[Ming]

How do you know? As far as I know there is no exception for catholics.

That's the whole point... religion doesn't make people more honest... that's up to the individual. Religion may be a crutch for some people, but honesty isn't based on being religious.

I think we all have the capability to murder. Religion doesn't turn you into a murderer. You were probably already one.

But... it gives people a reason to "murder"... you know, their God's supposed plan... More people have died in the name of god then probably any other cause. And I might disagree with your comment that it doesn't turn you into a murderer. A normal person may not consider killing their neighbor... because they have no reason or cause to do so. But bring God into the equation, and a relgious person might feel he has the RIGHT to kill his neighbor because he thinks god has told him to.

[Kidlicious]

That's the whole point... religion doesn't make people more honest... that's up to the individual. Religion may be a crutch for some people, but honesty isn't based on being religious.

First you need the will to be honest. Of course everyone says that they have one, but that's not reality. The research suggests that doing some things can give you that will.

But... it gives people a reason to "murder"... you know, their God's supposed plan... More people have died in the name of god then probably any other cause. And I might disagree with your comment that it doesn't turn you into a murderer. A normal person may not consider killing their neighbor... because they have no reason or cause to do so. But bring God into the equation, and a relgious person might feel he has the RIGHT to kill his neighbor because he thinks god has told him to.

Religion is a justification not a cause. Just like lying we are all capable of murder. It's what we do to survive and insure the survival of the group that accepts us. Indeed, religion becomes a part of that, but it's not religion that makes you do it.

[Docfeelgood]

I got it!
THE BIG BANG!

there!

[Docfeelgood]

ATHEISM DESTROYED IN UNDER 4 MINUTES !!

I have no idea what this means, but I thought it would fluff the conversation.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Please quote the post in this thread where someone said they couldn't co-exist... the goal-post was never set there.

It's a standard talking point of the Dawkins' set and plenty on this thread have implicitly stated that religion can't survive scientific discovery.

What makes religion a good way to explain what science can't explain? How does talking about supernatural entities allow for a fuller understanding of love, beauty, etc.?

What makes any philosophy a good way to explain what science can't explain? It will come down to individual experiences and explanations in the end. To me, a complete understand of love and beauty is impossible without the Creator, but that doesn't necessarily fly for those who haven't accepted that (and I assume they'd say the same thing regarding whatever philosophy they apply).

[Jon Miller]

Actually, Wezil was, in this thread, explicitly saying that Religion and Science were inherently incompatible.

JM

[MOBIUS]

That would be your CHOICE.
I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.
IMHO

Sorry
I would make a terrible priest

I'm just pointing out that a weak willed and gullible sort of person open to suggestion (i.e. people who follow organised religion) would have seen what has been to this very day the most amazing coincidence of my life (remember, Greater London has a pop of about 8 million people over an area of at least 400 square miles and the place where this organisation was just happened to be opposite my door!!! ), where even I, skeptic though I am momentarily thought 'is this a sign from God?', as an affirmation that God exists through the teachings of the First Church of Christ...!

Instead, I realised that this was just a pretty nasty mysoginistic and homophobic cult aimed at enriching the leader of the congregation whilst he embarked on massively expensive vanity trips to China to buy children and brainwash them into the church's form of 'Christianity' - so I GTFO even if it meant the necessity of severing my friendship with an old friend in the process...

So, I've briefly dabbled in the religious thing and I can state from my POV that whatever epiphany you've had to make you religious, chances are that it was just a gigantic and colossal coincidence of some kind!

I'm just gutted I wasn't able to use those kind of odds on a lottery ticket...

[MOBIUS]

That's the whole point... religion doesn't make people more honest... that's up to the individual. Religion may be a crutch for some people, but honesty isn't based on being religious.

I don't think that ****ing small boys that you have a duty of care to strikes me as being honest, for example...

[MOBIUS]

The same argument can be made for anything. It's a failing of the individual, not a failing on the part of religion. Religion doesn't say "diddle the kiddies", at least none of which I'm familiar.

No, but it tacitly approves of 'diddling the kiddies' because it covers the whole thing up and fails to punish the perpetrators.

[rah]

I see the goalposts moving, moving, moving...

(point was religion and science can co-exist)

I have never said they can't co-exist. But just because science can't explain something, religion isn't automatically the only other way to explain it. There are things that neither can explain yet and probably never will.