End of the Road for the RN

[Al B. Sure!]

Here's one:

http://www.mysterypollster.com/main/files/DempseyMP.pdf

The NES set is of the civilian population as of 2004.

[BeBMan]

Cameron and Sarkozy hail UK-France defence treaties

David Cameron and Nicolas Sarkozy say the moves will save money without undermining national sovereignty
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David Cameron has said new treaties on defence and nuclear co-operation with France marked a "new chapter" in a long history of defence co-operation.

Speaking alongside French President Nicolas Sarkozy, the UK PM said it would make both countries' citizens safer and would save money.

A centre will be set up in the UK to develop nuclear testing technology and another in France to carry it out.

The leaders also confirmed plans for a joint army expeditionary force.

After both leaders signed the two treaties, Mr Cameron said: "Today we open a new chapter in a long history of co-operation on defence and security between Britain and France."

He said it was not about a European army or about sharing nuclear weapons.

"Britain and France are, and will always remain, sovereign nations, able to deploy our armed forces independently and in our national interest when we choose to do so."

But Mr Cameron said the vast bulk of Britain's military operations over the past few decades had been carried out with allies and said co-operating on testing nuclear warheads would save millions of pounds.

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"It is about defending our national interest. It is about practical, hard-headed co-operation between two sovereign countries."

He added that one treaty would commit the two countries' forces to work "more closely than ever before" while the other - to last 50 years - would increase co-operation on "nuclear safety".

The nuclear treaty will establish a centre in the UK to develop testing technology and another one in France to carry out the testing. Warheads will be tested by technical means to ensure their safety and effectiveness, without having to test them by explosion.

The other treaty will allow the setting up of a "combined joint expeditionary force", thought to involve a brigade of about 5,000 soldiers from each side, which will operate under one military commander to be chosen at the time.

The UK and France have also agreed to keep at least one aircraft carrier at sea between them at any one time. Each will be able to use the other's carrier in some form, certainly for training and possibly operations.

Mr Sarkozy described the agreement as "unprecedented". He said the treaties would deliver "a truly integrated aircraft carrier group" but dismissed suggestion that they would infringe on either country's sovereignty.

The two leaders faced questions about what would happen if one country backed a military operation and the other did not. Mr Cameron said there would have to be "political agreement" for the joint taskforce to be deployed.
Graph showing size of defence forces

Mr Sarkozy said it would be unlikely that Britain would face a crisis so great that it needed an aircraft carrier without France being affected: "If you, my British friends, have to face a major crisis, could you imagine France simply sitting there, its arms crossed, saying that it's none of our business?"

But Conservative MP Bernard Jenkin told the BBC that while he approved of the talks, Britain had to be "realistic". He said there was "a long track record of duplicity" by France in dealing with allies and questioned whether the French would make an aircraft carrier available for an operation like the Falklands. He said if the US felt Britain was sharing intelligence "too freely" with Paris, they would "cut us off" from intelligence and technology.

But former Lib Dem leader Lord Ashdown said: "The French believe we are duplicitous as well, but I just think this is terribly out of date.

"Do we have a future common interest? Yes. Are there practical ways we can work together to provide better effect? Yes ... I am strongly in favour of this."
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Equipment UK France
Aircraft carriers
Aircraft carrier
2 1
Destroyers
destroyer
7 12
Submarines
Submarine
12 10
Fighters
jet fighter
233 342
Battle tanks
battle tank
345 451
Nuclear warheads
warhead
255 300

Sources: IHS / Jane's /Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists

But he suggested the French government saw the deal as the first move towards wider European defence co-ordination - which may not find favour with some Eurosceptic Conservatives.

The summit comes two weeks after the UK government announced cuts to its armed forces as part of savings aimed at reducing the country's budget deficit.

The treaty will also allow France to use British A400M fuelling aircraft when there is spare capacity, with plans in place for common maintenance and training and there will be joint work on drones, mine counter-measures and satellite communications.

In a statement, the French presidency said the nuclear test centre in Valduc, eastern France, would start operations in 2014 and would work with a French-British research centre based in Aldermaston, Berkshire.

Together the facilities would involve "several dozen" French and British experts and cost both countries several million euros.

The UK's shadow defence secretary Jim Murphy said Labour supported the emphasis on international co-operation as Britain shared common threats with France - ranging from terrorism to cyber-attack.

"Interdependence, however, is different from dependence, and binding legal treaties pose some big questions for the government."

Mr Murphy also questioned whether the the UK was entering "an era where we are reliant on our allies to fill in the gaps in the government's defence policy".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-11670247