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No pay, no spray: Firefighters let home burn

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  • #136
    Originally posted by Boris Godunov View Post
    Right, because no one buys insurance in this country.
    Why would I buy insurance if I could purchase retroactive "insurance" at the same rate the day after I got into an accident?

    Do I think it would be feasible for the city to charge a much, much, much higher rate for those who haven't prepurchased their insurance? Maybe, maybe not. What about creditworthiness? If the guy "forgets" to pay a 75$ bill what are the chances he'll be able to pay 10 or 20k? Even if it is feasible, I have no idea why anybody in their right mind thinks that it is their duty to do so. The county residents are the ones who have chosen not to fund a county-wide fire service, so their reliance on contract work is their own problem...
    12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
    Stadtluft Macht Frei
    Killing it is the new killing it
    Ultima Ratio Regum

    Comment

    • #137
      Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
      LOL at the thought that 75$ a year is a lot to anybody with a job. What a ****ing joke. He decided to gamble and lost. He and his kids are safe. The loss they suffered was a direct result of their own ****ing stupidity (in two parts: not paying their bills and burning trash in some obviously retarded fashion). The loss was monetary, not personal.

      If the city is going to start giving away free **** to those who are not their residents, I'd rather they start with actual poor people, say in the third world. **** this guy and **** his whiny-ass sense of entitlement. I just wish the firemen had laughed at him while they were there.
      Who said give it away?

      I've repeatedly said to provide the essential service if it is possible, then bill for it afterwards. He wouldn't pay the $75/yr, but instead the full cost of any action needed in the absence of it. Is that not fair in every sense?
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

      Comment

      • #138
        Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
        Why would I buy insurance if I could purchase retroactive "insurance" at the same rate the day after I got into an accident?
        Who said it is the same rate?

        I've explicitly stated otherwise.
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

        Comment

        • #139

          The bottom line here is that it is simply immoral if you have the means to put out a fire and save someone's home and pets to just sit by and do nothing. It is no different from an ER turning away people who can't pay or a policeman refusing to help someone being mugged because he knows that person didn't pay his taxes or something of that nature.


          No, it is absolutely NOT like that. Taxes are collectible whether or not you avail yourself of the services they pay for. The fee this guy wasn't paying was OPTIONAL.
          12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
          Stadtluft Macht Frei
          Killing it is the new killing it
          Ultima Ratio Regum

          Comment

          • #140
            Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
            The fee this guy wasn't paying was OPTIONAL.
            So how is this not like the ER example?

            Insurance is OPTIONAL...
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

            Comment

            • #141
              The guy said he would pay whatever was deemed appropriate in his call to the dispatcher. Tough sh*t was the response. This gets really complex and sticky.
              I'll say it again, it's a failing of the county, not the city. If I live in the rural areas there, I think this would get my attention and have me involved as an activist.
              Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
              "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
              He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

              Comment

              • #142
                Originally posted by Asher View Post
                Who said give it away?

                I've repeatedly said to provide the essential service if it is possible, then bill for it afterwards. He wouldn't pay the $75/yr, but instead the full cost of any action needed in the absence of it. Is that not fair in every sense?
                1) My comment was not directed at you; it was directed at Boris
                2) Read my comment; I have no idea why you think it is mandated morally from the city's perspective that they stop the guy from suffering a monetary loss when it's quite plausible that he won't be able to pay them back for their efforts.
                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                Stadtluft Macht Frei
                Killing it is the new killing it
                Ultima Ratio Regum

                Comment

                • #143
                  Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
                  Why would I buy insurance if I could purchase retroactive "insurance" at the same rate the day after I got into an accident?
                  Nobody said anything about him paying the same rate.

                  Do people buy health insurance of their own volition to avoid paying huge hospital bills out of pocket? They sure do! But ERs don't say they won't treat someone who comes to them and doesn't have insurance, they just bill them the cost of the services.
                  Tutto nel mondo è burla

                  Comment

                  • #144
                    Originally posted by SlowwHand View Post
                    The guy said he would pay whatever was deemed appropriate in his call to the dispatcher. Tough sh*t was the response. This gets really complex and sticky.
                    Look at this from the perspective of the free market.

                    This guy apparently wanted to buy the services of the available fire department, even in the absence of the optional fee which provided protection. And they refused.

                    Doesn't this irk you at all, KH?
                    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                    Comment

                    • #145
                      Originally posted by Asher View Post
                      So how is this not like the ER example?

                      Insurance is OPTIONAL...
                      Because the loss suffered by dying is that of personal injury, not that of possessions.

                      12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                      Stadtluft Macht Frei
                      Killing it is the new killing it
                      Ultima Ratio Regum

                      Comment

                      • #146
                        Nobody said anything about him paying the same rate.


                        He did, actually. He offered them 75$.
                        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                        Stadtluft Macht Frei
                        Killing it is the new killing it
                        Ultima Ratio Regum

                        Comment

                        • #147
                          Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
                          1) My comment was not directed at you; it was directed at Boris
                          2) Read my comment; I have no idea why you think it is mandated morally from the city's perspective that they stop the guy from suffering a monetary loss when it's quite plausible that he won't be able to pay them back for their efforts.
                          So even if they only got a few grand for their efforts instead of the "full cost", what is lost here?

                          The men are being paid the same regardless. The equipment is already being paid for. Their costs are, more or less, completely fixed.

                          Any dime they guy would give them would be a net gain, would it not?
                          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                          Comment

                          • #148
                            Originally posted by Asher View Post
                            From DinoDoc's own article, it's not that he decided not to do it. He usually did pay it. They were away and did not pay it on time, according to the article.
                            You say this as if it meaningfully changes anything. The effect is the same. Why does a free rider have more of a moral claim on South Fulton’s firefighting services than people in Muleshoe, Texas, have to those of the NYPD?
                            I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                            For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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                            • #149
                              Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
                              Because the loss suffered by dying is that of personal injury, not that of possessions.

                              So you draw the line at the person, and you do not include pets or home?

                              Arbitrary.
                              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                              Comment

                              • #150
                                Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
                                You say this as if it meaningfully changes anything. The effect is the same. Why does a free rider have more of a moral claim on South Fulton’s firefighting services than people in Muleshoe, Texas, have to those of the NYPD?
                                If a man from the NYPD was in Muleshoe, Texas and saw a rape taking place, I'd expect him to step in and do something.

                                It's a moral obligation. Or, it should be. It would be the Christian thing to do, in any case. And by "Christian", I mean "moral", as it is antithetical to the beliefs of people who actually claim to be Christian.
                                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                                Comment

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