Papal Visit to the UK

[C0ckney]

there's nothing stopping you talking about hate. perhaps you might like to try a scientific explanation.

[Boris Godunov]

i broadly agree with this, and you've put it better than i could. my questions were in response to mike h's assertion that every question can be answered by (hard) science. JM and i have posed some questions which we believe cannot be answered in this way, and obviously, there are many more besides.

I think it's a bit foolish to claim that anything "cannot" be answered with a scientific explanation. We just don't know what our civilization's Future Techs will be able to discover.

But the track record of science vs. mysticism is pretty clear. To date, the explanations that have been discovered have all shown natural explanations behind observed phenomena, even ones previously "known" to be supernatural (like magnetism). Not a single supernatural claim has ever been proven to be actually true. Considering the score right now, I've no problem with being confident that everything can be explained via natural processes, whether or not everything actually will be explained by such.

[onodera]

Perhaps 'self-awareness' is the word you mean here. 'Self-consciousness' tends to refer to a heightened state of self-awareness, often negative, and perhaps associated with the sense of making a fool of oneself.

How it works and where it resides within the neural architecture are certainly interesting questions. Cognitive / Artificial Intelligence scientists are doubtless having fun working on this.

Yeah, I meant self-awareness. Thanks for the correction.

[C0ckney]

I think it's a bit foolish to claim that anything "cannot" be answered with a scientific explanation. We just don't know what our civilization's Future Techs will be able to discover.

But the track record of science vs. mysticism is pretty clear. To date, the explanations that have been discovered have all shown natural explanations behind observed phenomena, even ones previously "known" to be supernatural (like magnetism). Not a single supernatural claim has ever been proven to be actually true. Considering the score right now, I've no problem with being confident that everything can be explained via natural processes, whether or not everything actually will be explained by such.

well if you mean supernatural in the sense of magic and miracles then you are right. however i am talking about something different.

we know that 2+2 = 4, and we can construct a mathematical proof for it. in a similar way, we can study chemicals in the brain, and say that chemical x interacts with chemical y and produces result z, and the proof for this is evidence e. in cases such as these there is a clear method for studying the problem, of finding an answer and a proof of the answer. however, when considering question like "what is love" or "what is good" you cannot approach it in the same way. as we have seen here when people try to answer these questions in a 'scientific' way, they often come up with answers that are not scientific or answers which are but do not really address the question.

of course, i do not deny that you can shed light on aspects of many problems we consider philosophical by the application of science, but that is different thing to providing an answer.

[Provost Harrison]

It's not bull****. Atheist extremism has caused a whole hell of a lot more suffering lately than has religious extremism -- Islamist militants included.

You're funny - I'll give you that

[notyoueither]

The total suffering inflicted by Communist regimes in the twentieth century would be a fairly high amount.

[Krill]

nye, what happened to the tiger?

[Provost Harrison]

Indeed. Reason and science can't answer everything. Not all things can be fully explained. Society appears to be moving on from the modernist contention that everything can be answered, but of course, plenty of folks are not necessarily turning to religion for those unanswerables. I think they feel as though they are fine with never being able to answer the questions of why, or at least argue with each other using philosophical rather than theological concepts.

They go in a different way than me (though I don't think, even through God, I can really answer everything - that'd be highly presumptuous of me that I know the entire will of God), but they acknowledge the unanswerable exists.

Perhaps the questions we ask don't really make sense in terms of reality. Often we are too busy trying to think of what our true purpose is that we forget that nothing really has a purpose in the grand scheme of things.

And there are questions that we don't know the answer to, and don't know if we will ever be able to answer. This certainly doesn't mean that religion can fill those gaps and answer those questions, at least not honestly...

[notyoueither]

nye, what happened to the tiger?

This guy seems so much more fun.

[Krill]

Just so long as you have the tiger when posting at Frankie, fine. We expect you to be working over there and not just having fun.

[notyoueither]

Perhaps the questions we ask don't really make sense in terms of reality. Often we are too busy trying to think of what our true purpose is that we forget that nothing really has a purpose in the grand scheme of things.

And there are questions that we don't know the answer to, and don't know if we will ever be able to answer. This certainly doesn't mean that religion can fill those gaps and answer those questions, at least not honestly...

It is human nature to fill those gaps. Would you prefer 1 billion people do so by following the Pope, or Hubbard?

[Provost Harrison]

I'd rather them pull random sh*t out of their arse, quite frankly...

[notyoueither]

It is human nature that 'they' will listen to other people and most will be followers rather than leaders or free spirits.

[Provost Harrison]

Education tends to mitigate that to an extent. Although I've never actually come across any Catholics who take any notice of the pope anyway.

[Boris Godunov]

The total suffering inflicted by Communist regimes in the twentieth century would be a fairly high amount.

Communism didn't oppress people in the name of Atheism, it did so in the name of Communism. Atheism was incidental.