Poverty creates large IQ differences even between groups of the same ethnicity.

[RGBVideo]

there is a correlation. poverty and low IQ coexist

you'd think it was ****ing obvious that low IQ causes poverty, not the other way around. stupid people don't use production methods efficiently, don't know what to invest/consume in to increase their welfare and can't create new innovations/inventions. reversing this obvious causation is a really academic and fancy way of sticking your head up your own ass.

[KrazyHorse]

But how correlated are those with actual intelligence when you consider poverty and such?

????

Can you please formulate this in terms that I can understand?

[RGBVideo]

strict terms like due to malnutrition

extreme malnutrition and the related brain damage does not affect your genetic heritage. even well-fed stupid populations stay poor, and even poorly-fed intelligent populations turn quickly rich. if you are so extremely poorly fed that your IQ rate somehow goes permanently down 10 points (not likely, you'll be likely to die at that point), your children will still have similar IQ rate that you had before permanent brain damage.

[Al B. Sure!]

VJ:

You are way underestimating the importance of nutrition in child development. Not saying the average 'disadvantaged' group in the US has that level of average malnutrition to effect IQ's, but it definitely comes into play if you're talking about the IQ's of Somalis or something. There's no way if a pregnant woman isn't getting enough food or the right breakdown of nutrients that her child who then spends his life not getting the right food, is going to be smart enough to do well on an IQ test!

[RGBVideo]

AS: You're late by 1 minute or so; time to DanS.

[Al B. Sure!]

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1272/is_n2587_v122/ai_15173055/

What is the impact of infant nutrition on later development? Alan Lucas, head of infant and child nutrition, Dunn Nutrition Centre, Cambridge, England, led a research team which found that infants fed mother's milk with a formula supplement for four weeks postnatally had a significantly higher IQ at seven-and-a-half to eight years of age than those who received only formula. There was an 8.3 point advantage in IQ, after adjusting for differences between groups in mother's education and socioeconomic status.

[Al B. Sure!]

This is from Heraclitus' primary source, Richard Lynn:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V9F-45Y0X4J-1V&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F1990&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=e4505c205a66f0a1dcc41f8574086007

In a number of economically developed nations the intelligence of the population has increased by approx. 1 standard deviation (SD) over the last half century. No satisfactory explanation for this increase has yet been forthcoming. In this paper it is argued that the major causal factor is improvements in nutrition. These have led to parallel increases in height, head circumference and brain size, and to improved neurological development and functioning of the brain. These are responsible for higher intelligence. Nutrition is still suboptimal for substantial proportions of the population and further increases in intelligence can be anticipated if standards of nutrition could be improved.

[Dinner]

It's funny how we Scottish Americans are ranked #2 in college graduation rates. I suspect the only reason Russians are so high is because it's hard for them to immigrate unless they have a college degree so there is a selection for college educated people when deciding who gets to come here.

[RGBVideo]

you're arguing for a point that has been proven and accepted. altough brain development changes in cases of extreme starvation, genes (and thus, brain developments of children) do not.

did you select somalis as an example of people whose low IQ is supposedly caused by starvation by accident, btw?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

bah, Russians are a superior race, if this statistic does not prove this, nothing else does.

[Hauldren Collider]

Ask a ****ing psychologist, dude, I can't give you a rigorous answer to that.

You can't give me a rigorous answer because even the "****ing psychologists" don't really know.

Which was the point, of course.

But I can draw the line at something directly affected by the amount of money you have growing up (as in, if you took two identical twins, one grew up in NoVA and the other grew up in a Chicago slum, who would be more likely to score higher?)

Well that's just dumb. You think a definition of "intelligence" must completely exclude non-genetic factors*? What purpose does that serve? How does that restriction make the idea of "intelligence" more useful?

*if you start talking about epigenetics and such I will walk upstairs and punch you in the face.

1. I don't even know what epigenetics are. Actually I do but I had to wiki it first so it doesn't count.
2. I don't think intelligence must completely exclude nongenetic factors, I am recognizing that intelligence has both an innate and an environmental component. My point is that I don't think it is without value to attempt to measure innate intelligence.
3. Recognizing innate intelligence could help us understand what aspects of our environment adversely affect our general intelligence. This is obviously useful.

[Hauldren Collider]

????

Can you please formulate this in terms that I can understand?

I meant, how correlated is IQ with innate intelligence? I understand that this isn't as useful as a predictor of economic success.

[Kuciwalker]

2. I don't think intelligence must completely exclude nongenetic factors, I am recognizing that intelligence has both an innate and an environmental component. My point is that I don't think it is without value to attempt to measure innate intelligence.

No, your point was that you outright reject any definition of intelligence that can be "directly affected by the amount of money you had growing up".

[Hauldren Collider]

ummm....

So, when I said "actual intelligence", I probably should have said "innate". Because that's what I meant.

[Kuciwalker]

I meant, how correlated is IQ with innate intelligence? I understand that this isn't as useful as a predictor of economic success.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inheritance_of_intelligence

If by "innate intelligence" you mean "portion of IQ attributable to genetics"* then the answer is that the heritability of IQ is probably somewhere between .4 and .8.

If by "innate intelligence" you mean "some thing I have no idea how to define or measure" then who cares?

*this is not precisely the right way to say it, but whatever