Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Poverty creates large IQ differences even between groups of the same ethnicity.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Poverty creates large IQ differences even between groups of the same ethnicity.

    A liberal essay rebutting the myth that some ethnic groups have genetically inferior IQ's.


    Myth: Some ethnic groups have genetically inferior IQ's.

    Fact: Poverty creates large IQ differences even between groups of the same ethnicity.



    Summary

    There are too many examples of discriminated minorities even within ethnic groups that score worse on IQ tests to believe the myth that the differences are genetic.



    Argument

    On average, African-Americans score 7 to 15 points lower than European-Americans on IQ tests. Many conservatives believe this is because blacks are genetically inferior to whites. But liberals believe that the IQ gap is the result of nearly three centuries of slavery and yet another 130 years of segregation and institutionalized racism. Even the Civil Rights Act and affirmative action have not eliminated discrimination against blacks -- they've merely reduced it somewhat. The result of this discrimination is that a disproportionate percentage of blacks work at lower-paying jobs, live in poverty and squalor, lack health care and child care, and do not receive the quality of education and personal development available to richer members of society. All these deprivations work to suppress IQ and educational achievement in children during their critical developmental years.

    Which viewpoint is correct? The answer becomes obvious when you compare the lower IQ results of other discriminated minorities around the world, many of whom are of the same genetic stock.

    Perhaps the most dramatic example is the Northern Irish. Even though they come from the same ethnic group, Catholics (the discriminated minority) score 15 points lower on IQ tests than Protestants.

    In the U.S., both Korean and Japanese students score above average in IQ tests; many scholars agree that, genetically, they are about as close as two ethnic groups can get. But the Korean minority living in Japan scores much lower on IQ tests than the Japanese. Why? The Japanese are extremely racist towards Koreans; they view them as stupid and violent, and employ them only in the dirtiest and lowest-paying jobs. Tensions are so great between the two groups that violence often erupts in the form of riots.

    In the U.S., Polish Jews arriving before 1910 were also perceived as stupid (for no other reason than they were accustomed to a different culture and spoke another language). So many "Pollock" jokes arose that Americans still tell them to this day, even if no one remembers why. The Polish Jews suffered heavy job discrimination and suspicion of criminality; not surprisingly, their children suffered low grades and IQ test scores. Today, of course, many Americans hold the opposite prejudice; Jews are viewed as the most brilliant of ethnic groups.

    Russian-born Jews who became American soldiers in World War I also scored low on IQ tests. So low, in fact, that Carl Brigham, the creator of the Scholastic Aptitude Test, declared that the results "disprove the popular belief that the Jew is highly intelligent."

    There are countless examples around the world where the dominant ethnic group scores higher on IQ tests than the discriminated minority, even when the two groups are of the same ethnic stock. Here is a partial list:

    Group Differences Around the World (1)

    Code:
                     High IQ/grades,    Low IQ/grades,
    Country          Dominant class     Discriminated class
    ---------------------------------------------------------- 
    Australia          Whites             Aborigines
    Belgium            French             Flemish
    Czechoslovakia     Slovaks            Gypsies
    Great Britain      English            Irish, Scottish
    India              Nontribals         Tribal people
                       High caste         Low caste
    Israel             Jews               Arabs
                       Western Jews       Eastern Jews
                       Brahmin            Harijan
    Japan              Non-Burakumin      Burakumin
                       Japanese origin    Korean origin
    New Zealand        Whites             Maoris
    Northern Ireland   Protestants        Catholics
    South Africa       English            Afrikaaners (Dutch)
    United States      Whites             Blacks
                       Whites             Latinos
                       Whites             American Indians
    Many conservatives argue that people who are smarter tend to go on to college more, and because whites are more intelligent than blacks, there are more whites in college. But regardless of the reason why this is so, it cannot be because of a genetic edge in intelligence. Consider the following information from the U.S. Census on the breakdown of white students who have graduated with a B.A. from college:

    Proportions of Americans who have completed college by self-identified ancestries (2)

    Code:
    French-Canadian   16.7 percent
    Dutch             18.5
    Italian           21.0
    Irish             21.2
    German            22.0
    Finnish           24.2
    Norwegian         26.0
    Danish            27.4
    Swedish           27.4
    Scotch-Irish      28.2
    English           28.4
    Welsh             31.8
    Scottish          33.6
    Russian           49.0
    All the above are at least third-generation Americans, which would give them sufficient time to join the college caste. Is it really reasonable to blame the above differences on genetics? Notice that the Scottish have nearly twice the college attendance as the Dutch, even though their ancestors lived right across the Channel…

    Most geneticists agree that there is far more genetic variation within groups than between groups. According to one commonly cited study, 85% of all human genetic variation is intra-population, 7% intra-race and only 8% inter-racial. (3)
    Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
    Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)

  • #2
    Many conservatives believe this is because blacks are genetically inferior to whites.
    Many conservatives argue that people who are smarter tend to go on to college more, and because whites are more intelligent than blacks, there are more whites in college.
    What conservatives believe this? Klansmen?
    "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
    "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

    Comment


    • #3
      IQ tests are retarded and only test how familiar people are with this form of testing.

      Comment


      • #4
        Why not compare the intelligence of Black children adopted by upper-middle-class White families to the intelligence of White children adopted by upper-middle-class White families?

        This would ensure that all children being studied are brought up in the most favorable family environment. Minimizing most of the differences that emerge between the groups due to environmental factors (prenatal environment still remains however).

        Oh wait someone already did this:
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minneso...Adoption_Study

        Also you should read htis paper by Jensen and Rhuston
        http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf
        Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
        The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
        The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Maniac View Post
          Most geneticists agree that there is far more genetic variation within groups than between groups. According to one commonly cited study, 85% of all human genetic variation is intra-population, 7% intra-race and only 8% inter-racial. (3)
          This is true but misleading. You need to explain to people what this means. A aspect of this is addressed in the terms of this question:

          Thus the answer to the question “How often is a pair of individuals from one population genetically more dissimilar than two individuals chosen from two different populations?” depends on the number of polymorphisms used to define that dissimilarity and the populations being compared. The answer, can be read from Figure 2. Given 10 loci, three distinct populations, and the full spectrum of polymorphisms (Figure 2E), the answer is 0.3, or nearly one-third of the time. With 100 loci, the answer is ~20% of the time and even using 1000 loci, 10%. However, if genetic similarity is measured over many thousands of loci, the answer becomes “never” when individuals are sampled from geographically separated populations.

          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...tool=pmcentrez
          Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
          The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
          The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Al B. Sure! View Post
            What conservatives believe this?
            Radical traditionalists ala the ones seen at Alterntive right.
            Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
            The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
            The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kittenOFchaos View Post
              IQ tests are retarded and only test how familiar people are with this form of testing.
              No.
              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
              Stadtluft Macht Frei
              Killing it is the new killing it
              Ultima Ratio Regum

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Heraclitus View Post
                Why not compare the intelligence of Black children adopted by upper-middle-class White families to the intelligence of White children adopted by upper-middle-class White families?

                This would ensure that all children being studied are brought up in the most favorable family environment. Minimizing most of the differences that emerge between the groups due to environmental factors (prenatal environment still remains however).

                Oh wait someone already did this:
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minneso...Adoption_Study

                Also you should read htis paper by Jensen and Rhuston
                http://psychology.uwo.ca/faculty/rushtonpdfs/PPPL1.pdf
                Congratulations! You have provided counter-evidence, without any clue as to how we could aggregate the latter with the former.
                In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Oncle Boris View Post
                  Congratulations! You have provided counter-evidence, without any clue as to how we could aggregate the latter with the former.
                  Sorry. I just don't feel like wasting the time and energy for these debates I once did.
                  Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                  The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                  The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    OK, let's get to the point then.

                    If it is shown that variations within a race are greater than variations between the averages of two races, why wouldn't you want to simply kick out the morons of your own ilk and replace them with smart Africans? Why are you so ****ing concerned with skin color?
                    In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
                      No.
                      While they aren't completely worthless, they are not great either.


                      c.f. pedotard
                      If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                      ){ :|:& };:

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Perhaps the most dramatic example is the Northern Irish. Even though they come from the same ethnic group, Catholics (the discriminated minority) score 15 points lower on IQ tests than Protestants.


                        Link?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Oncle Boris View Post

                          If it is shown that variations within a race are greater than variations between the averages of two races, why wouldn't you want to simply kick out the morons of your own ilk and replace them with smart Africans? Why are you so ****ing concerned with skin color?
                          Skin color is mostly irrelevant.

                          The main problem with large populations of very smart Africans is that they regress towards a lower mean. Also there is the little problem of the them having a foreign culture (not really true for the US but is definitely true for most of Europe or say Japan). Also people who look different are less inclined to put oneself in the other guy's shoes.
                          Last edited by Heraclitus; July 21, 2010, 19:30.
                          Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                          The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                          The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                            While they aren't completely worthless, they are not great either.


                            c.f. pedotard
                            They're as highly correlated with income as any other predictive variable observable before university

                            IIRC rho > 0.5

                            Probably even more correlated with academic achievement..
                            12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                            Stadtluft Macht Frei
                            Killing it is the new killing it
                            Ultima Ratio Regum

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Heraclitus View Post
                              Skin color is irrelevant.

                              The main problem with large populations of very smart Africans is that they regress towards a lower mean.
                              Where do you find a significant concentration of smart Africans?
                              In Soviet Russia, Fake borises YOU.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X