Trust me...

[Al B. Sure!]

Darius:

https://www.ocsfoundation.com

you can check out the OCS forums for each service branch from that site. You can register and ask around. I'm sure you'll get some information but you really ought to talk to an Officer Selection Officer, not a regular recruiter (unless you did talk to an OSO and just called him a recruiter).

[Darius871]

Ordinary OCS as in a non-Law contract? I'm sorry I'm not familiar with how the Army does things. For the Marine Corps, everyone goes to the same OCS but you have Ground contracts, Air contracts, Law contracts, and Reserve contracts (which can also be Ground, Air, and Law, although I've never seen an Air Reserve). I suppose a lawyer could want to do logistics or something unrelated to law and go as a ground contract, but I've never seen it happen.

Is that what you mean? Like being a Ground contract, despite your law degree and not practicing law in the military?

Essentially, though if I went that route it probably wouldn't be the Marines because there are less options as far as non-attorney positions that still could make use of a legal background, e.g. JAG support, procurements, criminal investigations for the Army MPs, AF OSI, Navy NCIS, etc.

No. You can be attending law school and do PLC-Law in the summers with a law contract. So no expectation of a JD.

What I meant was that they don't do advance applications and offers with no pre-graduation time commitments like the Army, AF, and Navy all do. I could have been a Marine throughout all of law school if I'd wanted to, but there just wasn't much point to it and it's obviously moot now. Like you said, the only question now is whether to apply before or after the bar results, and there's plenty of time to make that decision.

[Al B. Sure!]

So what exactly do you want to do? Are you saying ideally, you would be an attorney, but if that falls through, you'd do something else but want it to still be law-relevant? Or is your primary concern to serve (not necessarily as an attorney) but would like something law-related?

[Flubber]

Ripping myself to shreds at a private firm or as in-house counsel only so that some dentist in Omaha can see his stock dividends rise a fraction of a percent just wouldn't tend to scratch any of these itches, so I'd steer clear if I had a choice.
.

I never think about the dentist in Omaha--Doing good work is often its own reward-- I like agreement drafting and take great pride in drafting things that are concise, clear and unambiguous. My job takes me to the technological and intellectual property frontiers of my business and I mainly do this work because I find it interesting (its nice to be senior enough that the crap work gets done by others mainly and I get interesting stuff"

i.e "new technology x means we can do y and z and also means that these types of agreements are inadequate and the regulations are hopelessly outdated-- what do we do?

Oh and i get the teamwork part-- its the main reason I like being in-house versus being in a firm- that team feeling-- In many ways my job is simply being a problem solver

[Flubber]

Frankly, the biggest difference you could make in this world is to become an oilpatch lawyer like Flubber.

The pay is insane, and the ramifications huge. It's with his hard work that we are productively and lucratively raping mother earth and murdering migrating birds. You can't make a big of a difference in the world by doing small-time cases.

LOL-- I wish the pay were insane-- I need our share price to go up a lot for that to happen


Oh and my company is a lot better on environment than most petroleum companies . . . Lots of us are touting natural gas-- If only all you crappy oil burning folks would listen!!!!

[Darius871]

So what exactly do you want to do? Are you saying ideally, you would be an attorney, but if that falls through, you'd do something else but want it to still be law-relevant? Or is your primary concern to serve (not necessarily as an attorney) but would like something law-related?

No strong preference either way; I'm just applying for attorney positions first because it seems the rational starting point when I (and my school through a scholarship) have invested so much into acquiring this education that might atrophy in the wrong places.

[Al B. Sure!]

I guess I mean what is your primary goal, irrelevant of available slots and recruiting goals, etc.... Is it to be an attorney or is it to serve?

What I meant was that they don't do advance applications and offers with no pre-graduation time commitments

Could you explain this to me. I don't understand it. I don't see why the Corps would operate its JAG differently from the other branches.

[Asher]

LOL-- I wish the pay were insane-- I need our share price to go up a lot for that to happen


Oh and my company is a lot better on environment than most petroleum companies . . . Lots of us are touting natural gas-- If only all you crappy oil burning folks would listen!!!!

Burn more oil. Gas is bad, too much new shale ****.

[Darius871]

I guess I mean what is your primary goal, irrelevant of available slots and recruiting goals, etc.... Is it to be an attorney or is it to serve?

Ideal goal: both
What I might like more had I not gone to law school: serving
What I feel obligated to do if for no other reason than that I don't want the gift of a legal education to go to waste after years of disuse: practice law
Give-a-****-o-meter reading at this particular point in time still unwinding just days after the last exam and already taking bar prep courses all day every day: 0.00001

Could you explain this to me. I don't understand it. I don't see why the Corps would operate its JAG differently from the other branches.

The Army actually sends an FSO to each law school, interviews anyone interested, and submits an FSO report to a selection board which picks still-civilian students to give an offer 6 to 12 months in advance of their even passing the bar, with no training or other time commitments until shipping out to basic for the first time after the bar results are in. The AF and Navy do the same with the exception that you have to physically visit the nearest AFB or naval base and interview with a practicing JAG there instead of an on-campus FSO. The Marines do none of this. It's not really that perplexing when you bear in mind the Marines' model of "rifleman first, [X] second."

[Al B. Sure!]

Darius:

with no training or other time commitments until shipping out to basic for the first time after the bar results are in.

So you're saying that the other branches can select applicants whose military commitments/obligations are contingent on them graduating and passing the bar? Is that what you're saying? That if they sign up basically, they're not obligated to serve in case they fail their bar exam? So they won't get stuck as a 'line officer' in the Navy, AF, or Army?

[Al B. Sure!]

Darius, one other thing you should be aware of is that in the Army (and possibly the Navy and AF as well), you have to go to enlisted boot camp before OCS (although it's possible this is different for law guys). For the Marine Corps, there is just OCS where you have the option to D.O.R. (drop on request) or decline your commission if things don't work out before you graduate OCS (you could also decline your commission then accept it at a later time but this isn't a good idea). So what I'm saying there is actually less obligation for the Marine Corps route because there's no enlistment contract. You don't swear in until and if you accept your commission.

[Flubber]

Burn more oil. Gas is bad, too much new shale ****.

Gas is great-- we have lots in North America and its far cleaner burning than oil. Its even freaking cheaper. Listen to that Pickens billionare guy!! Natural gas is the way to go!!

[Darius871]

Darius:

So you're saying that the other branches can select applicants whose military commitments/obligations are contingent on them graduating and passing the bar? Is that what you're saying? That if they sign up basically, they're not obligated to serve in case they fail their bar exam? So they won't get stuck as a 'line officer' in the Navy, AF, or Army?

That's precisely correct. It's just recruiting-in-advance contingent offers just like any law firm, and they pick a grip of "alternates" in case someone doesn't satisfy the conditions, which include not only graduating and passing the bar, but also medical review, security clearance, etc.

[Asher]

Gas is great-- we have lots in North America and its far cleaner burning than oil. Its even freaking cheaper. Listen to that Pickens billionare guy!! Natural gas is the way to go!!

Cheaper is not good. Whose side are you on????

[Al B. Sure!]

Darius:

I'm not understanding how that's any different from the Marine Corps for practical purposes. (I'm not trying to get you to go USMC, I'm curious about what the differences are between the branches).

I don't get the purpose of this recruiting-in-advance. Nothing is binding if you go the USMC route. Like I said, unlike the other branches, you don't swear in (you don't sign an enlistment contract with an OCS option like the Army) until after you complete OCS assuming you complete OCS and you choose to accept your commission.

The ONLY conceivable way that someone could get stuck as a 'line' officer (Ground officer would be the term for the USMC), is if they planned to take the bar exam after commissioning and they failed it. (by the way, if you complete OCS and don't graduate from school, you void your commissioning contract and you have no military obligation)

If you take a bar exam and get your results before you ship, well you're good assuming you complete OCS. If you take your bar exam before you ship but don't get the results before you ship, you'll find out your bar exam results before the 10 weeks is up (they take what? 2 months or so?) and you can decide to D.O.R. or decline your commission at that point based on your results.

Lawyers are actually notorious for getting dropped or D.O.R.ing from OCS by the way. My first go, only one of about a dozen lawyers in my platoon was still there after week 4.

The only difference I can think of between this USMC system and the ones you described is that the ones you describe allow people to get a spot in the 'force pool' easier, whereas for the Corps, you put your application out for a particular selection board approx. 1.5 months before the class ship date, and compete with guys for the limited slots for that class. Don't get it, you can compete for the next class (3 OCS classes/year). Now with the other branches, though, if you're an 'alternate' and someone doesn't get DQ'd, then you'd be in the same boat as a USMC applicant who didn't make the cut for a particular class.

I can not stress enough... the USMC OCS contract is not binding and technically only obligates 4 weeks of OCS (although even that can be gotten around as I've seen numerous times).