Does The End Justify The Means?

[OzzyKP]

My brother-in-law participated in a jury that convicted a guy for rape. Some of the jurors thought that it was impossible to tell for sure whether he had committed the rape in question, but they voted for conviction because they thought that he was just the type of douchebag who would have done it.

Keep this in mind if you go in front of a jury. They think independently.

12 Angry Men

Did your brother believe the evidence conclusively proved this guy did this rape, or did he go along with the crowd?

[OzzyKP]

No, it's about your saying that the ethics question you've asked is black and white. And yet, you say in this thread that it is absolutely not the case that the ends can ever justify the means, while in another thread you were willing to say that it is okay to cause the deaths of several million Iraqi civilians (leaving aside for the moment your revocation of the civilian status of an entire nation's population) in order to prevent the deaths of a much smaller number of Americans. In other words, you don't really believe that it's a black and white question - you're usually opposed to having the ends justify the means, but in the case of killing Iraqi civilians you believe that the ends justify the means.

No, no, Sloww isn't being inconsistent at all, killing millions of Iraqi civilians are the ends for him....

[Imran Siddiqui]

No, you're an arrogant ass. I'm asking a question and giving you the parameters, and you argue with me.
It's my question. You're going to sit there and tell me that you'll define the question? Bull****.

Your question sucks is what I'm arguing. It's too black and white when the world is shades of grey.

[Imran Siddiqui]

There is a problem with your definition of Ends. In the case of the stolen key, it should also include things like the guard who had the key committing suicide (possibly), the guards at the jail being all killed, or nothing additionally happening.

The Ends is not just that a single guy is freed, they include all the results of a persons actions.

JM

It's just a hypothetical example. Add it whatever qualifiers you want.