Is the organic food movement the most anti-science social movement out there?

[Ecofarm]

Organic production out-yields conventional in the developing world. Cited earlier in this thread.

In the developed world, it produces 92% of the yield and way less negative externality. In fact, it has positive externalities.

[Solomwi]

How has he managed to become this much of a joke this quickly?

Determination and zakuesque levels of talent are the only possible explanation.

[Kidlicious]

I don't have enough time to go through KH's stupid remarks.

But how would the third world farmer make more money?

You can PM me if you wan't. They've ****ed this thread up,l

[Ecofarm]

I haven't even been here six months and I'm the most talked about person, especially among the bullies. It's good to be the star.


Kid, if you are referring to me and want info about developing world agriculture, feel free to PM.

[Kidlicious]

Who cares? They're all idiots.

[KrazyHorse]

Two 40something failures reassuring each other that everybody else is the problem.

[Kidlicious]

You got problems dude. Do me a favor and don't go home and beat your wife and kick your dog.

[KrazyHorse]

Which of you is my wife and which my dog?

[Thoth]

I haven't even been here six months and I'm the most laughed at person, especially among the people who have a clue. It's good to be a brainless idiot.

.

FTFY

[Thoth]

btw: which CFC mod banned you? I should send him a note to thank him for the entertainment you've provided.

[KrazyHorse]

Organic production out-yields conventional in the developing world. Cited earlier in this thread.

Was this your "100 square feet" reference of earlier? Or perhaps the "corn kills butterflies reference"?

[KrazyHorse]

Organic production out-yields conventional in the developing world. Cited earlier in this thread.

In the developed world, it produces 92% of the yield and way less negative externality. In fact, it has positive externalities.

Hi, I'm ecofarm. I make up numbers and use them to "prove" my point.

[Dinner]

I have recently come to believe that some of the organic farming practices are some what better then the old traditional methods in one respect. The excessive use of chemical fertilizers and pesticides does produce a lot of run off which creates ocean dead zones plus nitrogen contamination in ground water is a huge problem which can kill people who drink it. Here's part 1 of a 3 part story:

http://www.californiareport.org/archive/R201005140850/a

Does this mean we need to go organic to survive? No, but it does mean we need to get farmers to use less fertilizer when ever possible and old fashioned additions of compost is a good way to do that even if it does require more labor. Also stopping the mono-crop agriculture is likely a good idea because once you have hundreds or thousands of acres all planted with one crop any pest of that crop which gets in that field literally explodes out of control so farmers have no choice but to use pesticides. By having farmers grow multiple crops in the same field it is a bit harder to harvest but it naturally limits the growth of pest populations because each crop tends to have different pests so you end up spraying much smaller areas with the pesticide and that results in less run off.

I can totally see why farmers would want to avoid the addition labor and complexity of adopting some organic practices but at the same time they can also save money by buying less fertilizer and pesticides. I'm not saying every farmer should go organic but adopting a few practices could result in big environmental improvements.

[Elok]

I would also like to note, when drunk I will expose the "triad of assh0les" (perhaps we should go with "axis of evil" ?) but when sober I really have no interest in any interaction with them. When I'm drunk, I'm easily entertained and I feel it is also doing a community service. But if you guys want to see them called out on their BS regularly, someone else is gonna have to pick up the slack.

Arrogance. Triad of Arrogance. Please don't bastardize terms I coin with clumsy insults. And no, Axis of Evil was a stupid name when Bush used it and it's even dumber in this case. They're not evil, just perpetually condescending.

[Dinner]

Hi, I'm ecofarm. I make up numbers and use them to "prove" my point.

Most of the evidence I've seen is that the yield for organic is about 60%-70% of traditional in most cases. There are some cases (like drought or pesticide resistant pest outbreaks) where it can out perform (lots of organic matter in the soil tends to hold water better) but usually it is not as productive. That's why I'm not advocating farmers go whole hog organic.

That said we have serious problems not least of which is vast amounts of ground water being made unusable do to excess chemical fertilizer leaching into ground water. It's a huge problem here in California and it is costing cities hundreds of millions of dollars to try to clean water up so it becomes drinkable again. The link I provided in my previous post said that about 50% of the chemical fertilizers sprayed don't get picked up by plants and instead evaporates or runs off or leaches below the roots of the plants and thus ends up in groundwater. That means we're over using fertilizer by about 50%. If we can find ways where farmers can easily & quickly test the nitrogen content of their soil then we can help prevent over spraying which saves the farmer money and prevents the environmental damage. The key is to teach farmers how to tell when they really need the fertilizer and when they don't so they can avoid over spraying.