Arizona Senate Bill 1070

[Ecofarm]

People paying for their crimes, in accordance with democratic law, is not anyone's "payoff". You act as if racist motives in process negate criminal conviction.


Don't enforce the law because some racist might enjoy enforcing the law against a minority. In fact, we better not have any laws, so as to deprive the unjust of pleasure.

That doesn't work. It's downright ridiculous.

[rah]

Not at all. I'm talking about all the marginal stuff that cops will let most white guys get away with but not a minority. Selective enforcement driven by racism.

[Ecofarm]

And you are ok with every other crime enforcement being subject to that abuse, but we would rather not have immigration laws then let those suffer the same abuse?

There are no racist-proof laws... but immigration must be? You are asking the impossible of law, in this one case. Why?


Ok, I'll tell you why. Because you don't like current immigration policy in the first place.

[rah]

Not at all. In our community, no other criminal activity seemed to be biased that way. The opportunities there were less so it seemed the temptation was less also.

The potential for abuse in traffic stops is high and tempting.
I remember being stopped in traffic stop in Arizona when I was younger just because I had long hair.

And for the record, I really don't have a big problem with this law, but am slightly concerned that some cops will take advantage of it to punish minorities a bit more.

[DinoDoc]

Not at all. I'm talking about all the marginal stuff that cops will let most white guys get away with but not a minority. Selective enforcement driven by racism.

According to the 2006 Unified Crime Reports data, 69.7% of persons arrested were white, 58.5% of persons arrested for violent crimes were white, and 68.2% of those arrested for property crimes were white.

[Ecofarm]

And for the record, I really don't have a big problem with this law, but am slightly concerned that some cops will take advantage of it to punish minorities a bit more.

We're all concerned about that in regard to every single law. Why should immigration be different? How can it be portrayed as the sacred cow of protecting the not-innocents from racism.

[rah]

I'm talking marginal traffic stops, not violent crimes or property crimes.

[Tuberski]

According to the 2006 Unified Crime Reports data, 69.7% of persons arrested were white, 58.5% of persons arrested for violent crimes were white, and 68.2% of those arrested for property crimes were white.

Damn cracker convicts!

ACK!

[Ecofarm]

This law does not give authorization to stop someone. This law reads, "in the course of lawful contact..." Someone cannot be detained or otherwise questioned with suspicion of illegal status as the reason for contact.

It doesn't change why a cop can accost; it merely adds a question they can ask after having done so. And if the cop catches someone, they are still a criminal - even if the cop is racist.

[rah]

According to the 2006 Unified Crime Reports data, 69.7% of persons arrested were white, 58.5% of persons arrested for violent crimes were white, and 68.2% of those arrested for property crimes were white.

And in general 75% of the population is white, so these number show that minorities are arrested in a higher % then they are represented in the population. But since there are other factors, this doesn't really mean much to me.

[rah]

This law does not give authorization to stop someone. This law reads, "in the course of lawful contact..." Someone cannot be detained or otherwise questioned with suspicion of illegal status as the reason for contact.

It doesn't change why a cop can accost; it merely adds a question they can ask after having done so. And if the cop catches someone, they are still a criminal - even if the cop is racist.

Stopping someone for going over 2 miles over the limit or a broken tail light is considered lawful contact. And yes, I believe that these kind of stops can be influenced by minority status. (proven by how many cities have been sued and lost cases along these lines)

[Ecofarm]

The Rah Party

Protecting guilty people from racists, one traffic stop at a time.



You're not even protecting innocent people, because they get pulled-over anyway - but they don't get busted for being illegal, of course (it's not like the cop gets to drop them off at the border if he suspects them).

[rah]

Do you consider someone driving 2 miles over the speed limit a criminal?

[Ecofarm]

In Miami-Dade Country, it's not even a traffic violation. Hell, you gotta go like 20 over to get into misdemeanor territory.

I do consider violating immigration law to be criminal. The only way someone objects to this law is if they don't, or if they object to any "papers please" internally as a matter of decorum.



There is no special racist aspect to this law, because a cop cannot pull someone over via this law.

[rah]

I also consider violating immigration laws to be criminal.

But I don't believe that legal hispanics driving 2 miles over the limit to be criminals. And if you don't believe that the incidence of cops pulling over hispanics is about to rise because of this law, then you're just naive.