Youth Rights: Yemen and Child Brides

[Asher]

I disagree.

You are avoiding the relevant questions.

Are you simply saying it doesn't matter if we have laws that permit 9 year olds to marry in the USA because nobody would do that, unlike Yemen? Societal inclinations are not relevant to discussions of absolute laws.

[Kuciwalker]

You are avoiding the relevant questions.

Are you simply saying it doesn't matter if we have laws that permit 9 year olds to marry in the USA because nobody would do that, unlike Yemen?

I'm saying that your critique doesn't hold water because the consequences of such legislation would be different in the US and Yemen.

Societal inclinations are not relevant to discussions of absolute laws.

Sure they are.

[Asher]

I'm saying that your critique doesn't hold water because the consequences of such legislation would be different in the US and Yemen.

No, they wouldn't.

Legalizing the marriage of 9 year olds in the US and Yemen would have the consequence of legalizing the marriage of 9 year olds in the US and Yemen.

[DaShi]

The first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club.

[Kuciwalker]

No, they wouldn't.

Legalizing the marriage of 9 year olds in the US and Yemen would have the consequence of legalizing the marriage of 9 year olds in the US and Yemen.

Oh? There would be no substantive consequences, merely a change in the law with no change in behavior for any individuals?

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Asher]

Oh? There would be no substantive consequences, merely a change in the law with no change in behavior for any individuals?

No, the legal consequences are identical.

If you are talking about consequences in terms of differences of scale, that's not a valid point of contention ("most 9 year olds wouldn't marry, so what's the point?")

The point is whether 9 year olds should have the freedom to choose if they will be married. This is a legal absolute. Culture plays no role in this discussion.

[MrFun]

But what about American culture, Kuci? For example, how would pedophilia laws change if we were to enact equal rights for youth?

Hence, back to what I said earlier. With equal rights for youth, a nine year old could legally choose to marry a thirty year old person. Or, a twelve year old can consent to have sex with a forty year old without any laws against pedophilia because youth rights advocates believe children are capable of making their own life decisions.

[Japher]

Do 9 year olds (read "most 9 year olds") have the mental capacity to actually make a "choice"? Weighing in their ability to understand the consequences for their decision?

I haven't met a 9 year old who could do that very well. Actually, maybe 1.

[Asher]

Do 9 year olds (read "most 9 year olds") have the mental capacity to actually make a "choice"? Weighing in their ability to understand the consequences for their decision?

I don't believe so. I'm wondering where Ozzy draws the line here, that's it.

Most of the focus I've seen from him are on things like voting or choosing to go on field trips. I've not seen anything substantive with the topics like child labour, child porn, pedophilia, child marriage, etc.

[Kuciwalker]

No, the legal consequences are identical.

Yep, the legal consequences of enacting identical laws are identical. Thank you for pointing that out.

If you are talking about consequences in terms of differences of scale, that's not a valid point of contention ("most 9 year olds wouldn't marry, so what's the point?")

Why not?

The point is whether 9 year olds should have the freedom to choose if they will be married. This is a legal absolute. Culture plays no role in this discussion.

Why not, when culture has a substantial influence on the actual consequences of that freedom?

[Kuciwalker]

Why can't we judge the merits of a course of action based on what happens if we follow it?

[Asher]

Yep, the legal consequences of enacting identical laws are identical. Thank you for pointing that out.

I'm glad we're on the same page.

If you are talking about consequences in terms of differences of scale, that's not a valid point of contention ("most 9 year olds wouldn't marry, so what's the point?")

Why not?

Because laws are absolute, they're the law independent of scale of the action in question. The fact that "most of the time 9 year olds won't marry 50 year olds" doesn't change the fact that "some of the time 9 year olds will marry 50 year olds".

The question is should our law permit that or not. What most people choose to do doesn't factor into that.

[Asher]

Why can't we judge the merits of a course of action based on what happens if we follow it?

What in the hell are you talking about now?

[Kuciwalker]

You refuse to admit that since the substantive consequences of implementing a law in one country and implementing it in another are different, the correct course of action may be different two.

[Kuciwalker]

Asher, you aren't actually this stupid. Give it up.