Ann Coulter cries that Canada is bullying her

[Drake Tungsten]

Libel, slander, threats, and crowd-panic statements being the most obvious exceptions.

America has the most liberal libel and slander laws in the world. You can say anything you want about a public figure and nothing will ever be done to you.

I don't know anything about Canada's libel laws, but given your stance on hate speech I imagine you've followed the poor example of your British masters on libel.

There's also the issue of lying to a peace officer, lying under oath, etc.

This has nothing to do with free speech.

The only difference between the US and Canada is Canada draws its line slightly differently

That's the only difference between any two countries on this issue. The important point is that Americans have a greater right to free speech than Canadians do.

It's an entirely reasonable law, but I don't expect Americans to understand it.

We understand it, but we don't approve. Americans care more about freedom and liberty than Canadians do, which is why we broke away from the British Empire to become the greatest country on Earth while Canada still has the Queen on its money and isn't even the best country in the Commonwealth.

[Berzerker]

when Ann is done speaking the peasants grab the pitchforks and head out to lynch the nearest liberals. meanwhile Asher plays in the straw

[Asher]

America has the most liberal libel and slander laws in the world. You can say anything you want about a public figure and nothing will ever be done to you.

You still have libel and slander laws.

This has nothing to do with free speech.

How does having restrictions on what you say not have anything to do with free speech?

If you had true free speech, you can speak freely. Say what you want, when you want, and not get charged with a crime.

We understand it, but we don't approve. Americans care more about freedom and liberty than Canadians do

We just care in different ways. I enjoy the freedom and liberty that not having to listen to people like Fred Phelps offers me.

To me, that's the only difference. And it does make me feel more free. Freedom is more than just about what you can get away with doing, it's also a mindset and culture. Sometimes the rights of the very, very few can be restricted for the benefit of the vast majority. I'm cool with that.

You aren't. That's fine. But what passes for normal in the USA, especially when it comes to your "freedoms", is peculiar to most others. "Freedom of religion" gets abused as a tool of tyranny to repress gay rights, too. But you are more "free" there, for certain. I still can't get married there.

In very real terms, the USA is far less free than Canada for me. In esoteric terms, you can advocate genocide in the USA. USA USA USA?

[Drake Tungsten]

You still have libel and slander laws.

Yes, and our laws are less restrictive than your laws.

How does having restrictions on what you say not have anything to do with free speech?

Don't be a dumb****. Perjury isn't free speech.

Sometimes the rights of the very, very few can be restricted for the benefit of the vast majority. I'm cool with that.

Canadian "freedom"

[Theben]

Sometimes the rights of the very, very few can be restricted for the benefit of the vast majority. I'm cool with that.

Ouch.

You aren't. That's fine. But what passes for normal in the USA, especially when it comes to your "freedoms", is peculiar to most others. "Freedom of religion" gets abused as a tool of tyranny to repress gay rights, too. But you are more "free" there, for certain. I still can't get married there.

Only problem is who does the restricting. And by now you should be aware that in the US if anyone makes restrictive laws the least deserving are the normal targets.

[Asher]

Ouch.

Why? I'll help with the low-hanging fruit and the inevitable comparison to gay rights, where the majority are voting to restrict the rights of gays because they feel it's for the benefit of society.

The simple answer here is "they're wrong". People don't get hurt because two men in love can get married.

On the other hand, people can get hurt when you call for violence against people.

There's no hard & fast rule for this stuff. Just need to use discretion and be reasonable...it's worked in Canada.

Only problem is who does the restricting. And by now you should be aware that in the US if anyone makes restrictive laws the least deserving are the normal targets.

You need reasonable people to do the thinking, which is to say it will never work in your country.

[Drake Tungsten]

You just lost, Glonk. No American is ever going to side with you after that blatant defense of tyranny.

[Asher]

Yes, and our laws are less restrictive than your laws.

Point is, you still have restrictions.

Don't be a dumb****. Perjury isn't free speech.

Only because your law says it's not. In terms of practicality, why is freedom of speech selectively applied? If it's a true fundamental right, it shouldn't be restricted at all.

Canadian "freedom"

It's more of an American thought than Canadian, truly. Americans like to put people's rights to a public vote.

The reason gays can't marry in the US is the same reason.

American "freedom"

[Drake Tungsten]

Point is, you still have restrictions.

I never said we didn't. I said we were the most free, which is true.

USA, USA, USA!

[Asher]

You just lost, Glonk. No American is ever going to side with you after that blatant defense of tyranny.

No American needs to side with me -- I've already mentioned several times I don't expect Americans to understand nor agree.

The issue is far more complex than Americans will ever understand. It's so simple to say "freedom of speech = good" and "suppression of freedom of speed = tyranny". You never look past the superficial and look at the type of society and environment all of your freedoms create.

The US is the one dictating what people do in their own bedrooms and who they marry. By comparison, Canada prevents people from publicly calling for an organizing genocides.

Which one is more tyrannical?

Americans overly romanticize their rights and constitution. There are a great many fundamental problems with how America is run, problems that will never be corrected because Americans are blind to the problems...because it's part of the definition of America.

America is run by the most oppressive tyrannical majority in any developed country.

[Drake Tungsten]

Which one is more tyrannical?

Canada, clearly. The idea of free speech as a fundamental human right goes back to the Enlightenment, while a right to gay marriage was made up within the last few decades. Canada can't even get the basic stuff right.

Americans overly romanticize their rights and constitution.

Damn straight.

Of course, it's easier to be proud of a bill of rights that goes back farther than 1982. With such a short history of protecting freedoms, it's little wonder Canada is fixated on trendy PC bull**** while ignoring the vital and fundamental rights the United States has protected since 1791.

[Asher]

Canada, clearly. The idea of free speech as a fundamental human right goes back to the Enlightenment, while a right to gay marriage was made up within the last few decades. Canada can't even get the basic stuff right.

If it's a fundamental right, there should be no restrictions on its use at all.

Neither the US nor Canada respects the fundamental, inalienable rights for free speech. Simple as that.

[Drake Tungsten]

You should really read up on the history of free speech. I understand why they wouldn't want to teach you about that in Canadian universities (which are pathetic anyway, but that's another discussion), but it really is an important and interesting topic. I imagine there are any number of American books on the subject.

[Asher]

Damn straight.

Of course, it's easier to be proud of a bill of rights that goes back farther than 1982. With such a short history of protecting freedoms, it's little wonder Canada is fixated on trendy PC bull**** while ignoring the vital and fundamental rights the United States has protected since 1791.

More accurately, it's little wonder that Canada's constitution is far more in-touch with the realities of the present day. Canada's constitution had the advantage of learning from the mistakes of others.

It's essentially the American Constitution 2.0.

USA is stuck on the IE6 of constitutions.

[Drake Tungsten]

The American Constitution has 219 years of revisions and bug fixes. It's as rock solid as TeX.