Generic intolerance & bigotry thread

[SlowwHand]

I kinda feel like someone took a gimp-mask off my face. I can't wait to call someone stupid.

You missed your chance then, because in the post you were responding to, the term "stupider" was used. There's no such word. More stupid, yeah.
You wait all this time and then blow it. WTG.

[Ecofarm]

But you're probably right - for black people it's much better, for white people, much worse. I'll take 1980 South Africa any day. Blacks might disagree.

Additionally, though, much of the "expanding wealth" in South Africa is due at least as much to redistribution than anything else, right?

GDP/cap has nothing to do with distribution.

Fact is, South Africa has improved in every measurable way since 1980. I have no idea where you got the idea that it was better, in ANY measurable way, in 1980 (let alone your idiotic proposal that 1980 was superior in every way except social equality).

Seriously, dude... How long have you been saying that retarded crap and noone was like... hmm... wait a minute... according to the facts you are completely and totally wrong! wtf



ps. I know stupider is not a word, sloww. Jesus fkn Christ.

[Elok]

Yes, that's why taking race into account is stupid. If and only if I as black would I prefer South Africa today, and that's exactly the point. If our only measure is societal equality, or however you want to phrase it, then yes, I'm sure South Africa is better off today. If we judge nations on any other criteria, South Africa was vastly better in 1980.

Mm-hmm. Wiki says that SA today is about 80% black, with nearly 10% more mixed-race. I don't know the figures from '80, if you do, trot them out. In the meantime, we'll just say that, provided you were among that tenth of the population that could take a leak without the government's permission, those were the days for South Africa.

[Tattila the Hun]

80's music was better. Not sure if that applies to S Africa, though.

[Heraclitus]

Mm-hmm. Wiki says that SA today is about 80% black, with nearly 10% more mixed-race. I don't know the figures from '80, if you do, trot them out. In the meantime, we'll just say that, provided you were among that tenth of the population that could take a leak without the government's permission, those were the days for South Africa.

1904:

Black 67.45%
White 21.58%
Coloured 8.6%
Asiatic 2.37%

I assume the picture in 1994 was more like today than 1904 tho.

[Ecofarm]

I did use GDP per cap (PPP and inflation adjusted).

Your graph is wrong. It went from ~6k in 1980 to ~11k in ~2005.

[SlowwHand]

ps. I know stupider is not a word, sloww. Jesus fkn Christ.

You miss the point, Einstein.

[Heraclitus]

I did use GDP per cap (PPP and inflation adjusted).

Your graph is wrong. It went from ~6k in 1980 to ~11k in ~2005.

I think your sources are probably a bit off.


South Africa GDP (PPP) per capita in Geary–Khamis (international) dollar's

2009 according to the international monetary fund: 9,961
2008 according to the world bank: 10,109
2009 (est) by the CIA world factbook: 10,000


I got the graph from the OECD site. I doubt very much that it is factually inccorect.

Sources for the graph are listed as: World Bank, WDI database on line, and OECD estimates.

EDIT: Saw you used the PPP figures.

[Heraclitus]

GDP/cap has nothing to do with distribution.

Fact is, South Africa has improved in every measurable way since 1980. I have no idea where you got the idea that it was better, in ANY measurable way, in 1980 (let alone your idiotic proposal that 1980 was superior in every way except social equality).

Seriously, dude... How long have you been saying that retarded crap and noone was like... hmm... wait a minute... according to the facts you are completely and totally wrong! wtf



ps. I know stupider is not a word, sloww. Jesus fkn Christ.

I agree with you, someone living in South Africa in 1980 is worse off on average than someone living in South Africa in 2010. Its relative standing has declined but the same is true of Europe and Japan so this isn't really an argument. Technology improves all our lives and reduces crime rates. The midterm future unless a breakdown occurs like it did in Rodhesia/Zimbabwe will be better than today for SA and the world on average.


David's argument would only have merit if he claimed that Sout Africa would have been better off if Apartheid lasted longer say to 2004 instead of 1994.

[Ecofarm]

South Africa GDP (PPP) per capita in Geary–Khamis (international) dollar's

2009 according to the international monetary fund: 9,961
2008 according to the world bank: 10,109
2009 (est) by the CIA world factbook: 10,000

I got the graph from the OECD site. I doubt very much that it is factually inccorect.

Sources for the graph are listed as: World Bank, WDI database on line, and OECD estimates.

And what figures do they give for 1980?

I agree with you, someone living in South Africa in 1980 is worse off on average than someone living in South Africa in 2010. Its relative standing has declined but the same is true of Europe and Japan so this isn't really an argument. Technology improves all our lives and reduces crime rates. The midterm future unless a breakdown occurs like it did in Rodhesia/Zimbabwe will be better than today for SA and the world on average.


David's argument would only have merit if he claimed that Sout Africa would have been better off if Apartheid lasted longer say to 2004 instead of 1994.

Yes, to some extent it is similar to claiming progress under Stalin when truly that progress was despite Stalin and your argument holds regarding speculation being the only fair comparison. Nonetheless, he stated that in every criteria (except social equity) SA was "vastly" better in 1980; that's ludacris and displays vast ignorance.

Ummmm, that's true, unless your only measure for the success of a country is social equality. Take race out of the picture, and give me the option of living in South Africa in 1980 or in 2000, and I'll still take 1980 every time and twice on Sunday.

If our only measure is societal equality, or however you want to phrase it, then yes, I'm sure South Africa is better off today. If we judge nations on any other criteria, South Africa was vastly better in 1980.

[David Floyd]

David's argument would only have merit if he claimed that Sout Africa would have been better off if Apartheid lasted longer say to 2004 instead of 1994.

Stop muddling up my trolls with facts. Jesus, this is an intolerance and bigotry thread, not a fact thread.

[Kidlicious]

Yes, that's why taking race into account is stupid.

You must think we're stupid if you think we don't know that you take race into account.

[David Floyd]

Hey, the only race I take into account is white people

[VetLegion]

GDP/cap has doubled since 1980.

Literacy rates have gone from ~50% to ~85%

Malnutrition rates have improved.

Average level of education has increased.

Quality of justice system/legislation has vastly improved.

South Africa has improved since 1980 in pretty much every measurable way.

A casual glance at the actual numbers...

http://www.nationmaster.com/time.php?stat=eco_gdp&country=sf

...reveals something fishy. See how GDP in 2003 was 50% larger than in 2002?

This does not happen. Not in rich countries, not in poor countries, nowhere.

Possible explanations:
1. They changed the methodology
2. GDP is heavily reliant on export of one or two commodities (say, gold) and the numbers reflect swings in market price of that commodity
3. The country is inhabited by only two people and the husband stopped slacking in 2003

I don't have the time to go into it, so use your imagination.

[Ecofarm]

Get your GDP per cap PPP inflation adjusted CNN MSNBC CBS NBS ABCBS what the fk ever you want, it's higher now and everything else is better (except life expectency because of AIDS) so that post is completely fkd. End of story.