Apple's iPad

[Asher]

Is there something wrong with stealing ideas? I mean, are you accusing them of copyright or patent infringement, or are you just irritated?

It's part of the Mac Fanboy Trollbook.

They love to whine on and on about how everyone is always ripping off Apple.

Incidentally, a month or so ago Apple filed a lawsuit against HTC (essentially a proxy lawsuit vs Google) about really simple, mundane, obvious patents Apple has. Steve Jobs was explicitly quoted as whining about people "stealing their ideas" and proclaimed that they needed to "protect them".

It fills me with great delight when they steal other people's ideas, because it makes the fanboys squirm when cornered about it. Like the douche writing the articles at AppleInsider.

[Asher]

I think he's irritated at the fact that AppleInsider is acting like this is like software straight from Jesus Christ's Own Programming Company.

That too. The guy wistfully talks about how "sophisticated" this very simple mechanism too, for christsake. Gag.

Hell, I'd postulated all this **** as a reasonable multitasking approximation well before MS or Apple announced it. It's simply quite an obvious compromise and implementation for embedded devices.

[Wiglaf]

Great article that explains why Asher is wrong that Apple shouldn't be bullying other companies/running a totalitarian App store:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/technology/internet/11every.html

[Asher]

That article made my head hurt. The guy clearly doesn't ****ing understand the actual issue people are upset with.

So I looked him up, and it turns out he's an "author" who wrote a book called "The Invention of Air". Which is to say he's as qualified in his critiques of Apple's business and technical limitations as you are to critique String Theory.

[Wiglaf]

How dare you. Steven Johnson is a skilled writer who only sometimes writes fiction. He specializes in finding things people don't like and then explaining why they are good for us. He has done that here. Just take one look at Android's sad ass app selection, you coward.

[Asher]

The problem with the App Store model as it is now is it doesn't scale. We know that because it takes 3+ weeks to get app approvals and it's essentially a crapshoot. For one of our iPhone apps, a feature that had been in since the first version got flagged for a reason to reject the app by the 5th update (they hadn't noticed it before). We had a feature that let users find a business, then have a free service call the user back and connect them directly to that business -- it's a hugely popular feature because no one gets charged long distance. Apparently this violated the developer agreement because it would hurt the profits of the wireless carriers, so we had to remove the feature...now users pay long distance if they want to call a business outside of their home area code. Our Android, webOS,and Windows Mobile apps all have free long-distance feature.

I know this scares Apple, but Android is growing much, much faster than the iPhone marketshare is. In terms of devices sold AND in terms of number of apps available. The Android is a completely open market. Yes, it means you can download porn apps on there -- but why is that a bad thing? Steve Jobs specifically mentioned this in a Q&A, acting like their restrictions made the device better for children. Does he really not comprehend that they've got a completely unfiltered web browser on the device? Kids can still get porn on it. What the ****, Steve?

The douche spends much of his article talking about how the apps are "safe" because they've been "screened". His understanding of computer security makes me cry. FWIW, there's no WinMo, WebOS, or Android viruses either...that's not a valid point of his to make. Apple doesn't analyze the code for viruses (they wouldn't know where to look), they just make sure you are:
1) Not competing with them
2) Not using their private APIs, which give them competitive advantages

The review process doesn't exist to "protect users" or "ensure software quality" (there's TONS of AWFUL apps on the iPhone store), it's to give Apple control to ensure they have ABSOLUTE control on the platform. They can bully Flash by preventing Flash from coming on the phones, they can bully Google by banning Google Voice from having a native application (because it "duplicates functionality" of the phone), etc. It's a not a process to ensure safety and quality control, it's a process to ensure absolute control.

[Asher]

How dare you. Steven Johnson is a skilled writer who only sometimes writes fiction. He specializes in finding things people don't like and then explaining why they are good for us. He has done that here. Just take one look at Android's sad ass app selection, you coward.

What's sad about it?

Here's how many apps are being added to the Android market each month:


There's currently 30,000+ apps on the store, 9,320 of which were added last month and 1,980 apps added in the first 7 days of this month alone. There's a period of development time required for Android and now we're seeing a surge in apps as they start finishing up. As someone who DOES mobile app development for a living, I'm telling you the Android app dev market is actually HOTTER right now than the iPhone market. There's already app saturation on the iPhone and Android is growing far faster in terms of device sales.

I'm not going to get into a raw # comparison of the app store and the android market: the VAST majority of the App Store apps have a handful of downloads only.

If you use and like an app on the iPhone, we're basically at the point now that there's a version of it for Android as well.

[Wiglaf]

Apple does make sure you don't give away your credit card to a fraudulent app developer, which counts for far more than virus screening anyway. http://www.mobiletopsoft.com/board/6...shing-you.html

Just pretend he said that. In fact he kind of does.

If you use and like an app on the iPhone, we're basically at the point now that there's a version of it for Android as well.

So you open up the market to every app from every developer and you are still only 'basically' approaching having Apple's level of quality content. The only casualties are Google voice and your yellow pages app.

This is not a ringing endorsement of the open approach, especially since even you have to admit it's easier to develop for one ****ing phone than ten running the same OS.

[Asher]

Apple does make sure you don't give away your credit card to a fraudulent app developer, which counts for far more than virus screening anyway. http://www.mobiletopsoft.com/board/6...shing-you.html

Just pretend he said that. In fact he kind of does.

Welcome to the internet, dude.

No Android apps ask for your banking information or credit card number either. The App Store is not unique in this respect -- you are never entering purchasing information on WebOS, Windows Phone, or Android. They work just like the App Store does.

So you open up the market to every app from every developer and you are still only 'basically' approaching having Apple's level of quality content. The only casualties are Google voice and your yellow pages app.

There are many, many casualties. Google's is far more practical -- apps are accepted by default, and pulled if they're bad (eg, a scam app). This means when I needed to release a quick update for a critical crash in my app, I can push it out to 100% of the users within 5 seconds of uploading it to the Market. I need to make the users wait 3+ weeks for an update on iPhone (and if Apple rejects it or "has questions", it's at least another 3+ weeks).

This is not a ringing endorsement of the open approach, especially since even you have to admit it's easier to develop for one ****ing phone than ten running the same OS.

You can't develop for one ****ing phone. You need to develop for the iPhone 2G, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPad, iPod Touch 1st gen, iPod Touch 2nd gen, iPod Touch 3rd gen...all with unique quirks and limitations. Not to mention the differences in targetting iPhone OS 2, 2.1, 3, 3.1, and now 4. All with major differences.

For Android, you target capabilities and NOT the device. If you want a camera in your app, you add it to the manifest: "this app requires a camera". It'll work the same on any device with a camera. It's a far more forward-thinking approach than how Apple does it, which is device-centric (not capability-centric).

This discussion point isn't even AT ALL relevant to the discussion though, so WTF?

[Wiglaf]

There are many, many casualties. Google's is far more practical -- apps are accepted by default, and pulled if they're bad (eg, a scam app). This means when I needed to release a quick update for a critical crash in my app, I can push it out to 100% of the users within 5 seconds of uploading it to the Market. I need to make the users wait 3+ weeks for an update on iPhone (and if Apple rejects it or "has questions", it's at least another 3+ weeks).

Encouraging developers to get it right the first time has its benefits. Apps that release with crash problems, like The Sims app or the official American Idol app, get slammed by early reviews and lose huge profits. Developers learn from this.

No Android apps ask for your banking information or credit card number either. The App Store is not unique in this respect -- you are never entering purchasing information on WebOS, Windows Phone, or Android. They work just like the App Store does.

Apps can ask you for this information and you know it. It is too easy to dupe stupid users for falling for entering this. Apple has never allowed a fraudulent banking app. Android has. Touche.

You can't develop for one ****ing phone. You need to develop for the iPhone 2G, iPhone 3G, iPhone 3GS, iPad, iPod Touch 1st gen, iPod Touch 2nd gen, iPod Touch 3rd gen...all with unique quirks and limitations. Not to mention the differences in targetting iPhone OS 2, 2.1, 3, 3.1, and now 4. All with major differences.

They do have quite a few things in common, namely the ****ing touchscreen size and resolution.

Just admit it's easier. Maybe not much easier, but the guy has a point.

[Asher]

Encouraging developers to get it right the first time has its benefits. Apps that release with crash problems, like The Sims app or the official American Idol app, get slammed by early reviews and lose huge profits. Developers learn from this.

Why do you continue to annoy me by talking about irrelevant things?

Apps can ask you for this information and you know it. It is too easy to dupe stupid users for falling for entering this. Apple has never allowed a fraudulent banking app. Android has. Touche.

And Android's fraudulent banking apps got pulled almost instantly. It's the internet -- you can just as easily get sucked into the same scheme using Safari on the iPhone.

They do have quite a few things in common, namely the ****ing touchscreen size and resolution.

Just admit it's easier. Maybe not much easier, but the guy has a point.

No, he doesn't. And neither do you.

For one thing, "resolution" isn't even a factor on Android. All the layouts, widgets, etc are pixel-independent and designed to scale no matter the orientation, screen resolution, etc. It's another area Android is better designed than the iPhone OS, a topic I can go on for hours about...

It's not easier on the iPhone. It's as simple as that. I don't need to target any device at all with my Android apps, they all just work on all of the devices. The things run on a frickin Virtual Machine, Apple's run on the metal...I don't think you understand the difference, but the OS in Android is far more abstracted than Apple's. Your app doesn't know the model of phone you're running on, and it doesn't care. I didn't have to make a single change in my app to have it work on 320x240 screens up through 800x480. Portrait or landscape -- no changes there either. The layout reflows automatically. Higher resolutions give you more list space automatically. It's great.

If Apple was as foreward-thinking as Google was, iPod/iPhone apps wouldn't need to be dumbly pixel-doubled to work on the iPad.

[Wiglaf]

What if the screen size on the device is larger than what the app supports? OH THAT'S RIGHT IT WON'T SCALE PROPERLY HALF THE TIME AND WILL GIVE YOU A ****ING POSTAGE STAMP. This is like talking to Putin, which I did once at a state dinner.

Why do you continue to annoy me by talking about irrelevant things?

It's only irrelevant because you don't agree with it

The three-week delay is essentially a quality review period, and you know it. It's just not done by apple.

[Asher]

What if the screen size on the device is larger than what the app supports?

Apps don't have any concept of screen size, aside from an Android-mandated minimum of 320x240.

Download the ****ing Android emulator. You can set ANY RESOLUTION YOU WANT and all apps will work.

Apple lays out the UI in pixels (px), Android uses two others: dp/dip (device-independent pixel, or density-independent pixel) and sp (scale-independent pixel). sp is essentially the same as "dp" but takes into account user-configured system font sizes. You can also use "px" in Android but it's not recommended and actually warns you if you do.

As a result, it doesn't care how the pixel grid is laid out. The layout is done relatively, not absolutely like on iPhone.

The three-week delay is essentially a quality review period, and you know it. It's just not done by apple.

The wait is a queue. A low-level Apple employee spends maybe 5 minutes on each app only. They're crapshoots, never consistent.

[Wiglaf]

The wait is a queue. A low-level Apple employee spends maybe 5 minutes on each app only. They're crapshoots, never consistent.

THE WAIT MAKES DEVELOPERS MAKE BETTER APPS THAT DON'T NEED UPDATES. THAT IS FACTUAL.

Apps don't have any concept of screen size, aside from an Android-mandated minimum of 320x240.

Even when you hit that resolution, try a 320x480 app on a bigger screen. Kills it iPad style, just puts a ****ing background behind it. You don't have to worry about this when developing an iPhone OS app.

[Asher]

THE WAIT MAKES DEVELOPERS MAKE BETTER APPS THAT DON'T NEED UPDATES. THAT IS FACTUAL.

The opposite is actually true. We need to actually ship our apps out THREE WEEKS EARLY to have it released within a certain timeframe. This means we have 3 LESS weeks to work on it.

Fact.

Even when you hit that resolution, try a 320x480 app on a bigger screen. Kills it iPad style, just puts a ****ing background behind it. You don't have to worry about this when developing an iPhone OS app.

I don't know how you are confused by this. There is no such thing as a "320x480" app on Android.

I designed the our app for 480x320 on an HTC Magic. You deploy that same binary on a Nexus One (800x480), and it works just the ****ing same. No background behind it. In fact, it's automatically better on the Nexus One because it shows more listings in the same listview.

And yes, you DO need to worry about that when developing an iPhone OS app. WTF do you think happens on an iPad??