Why haven't we been back to the moon?

[Flubber]

Absolutely. Their best scientific minds were busy enough doing their own Moon programm.

THats like saying the coach of an NHL team or a Premier League soccer team is so busy coaching his own squad that no one looks at the film of their upcoming opponents.

It is ridiculous on its face to suggest anything other than that the USSR would have expended considerable resources to infiltrate NASA as far as they could and that they would have every resource possible trained on the Apollo missions to learn what they could.

[Serb]

That's why you should ask KH, he probably can the math. Even 60 russian tech could determine if the source of a signal was going "moon speed" or command module speed.

I never questioned the fact that Apollo reached the Moon. Was it a manned or unmanned spacecraft is another thing however. From my understanding the hardest part of the programm was to deliver astronauts back to mothership from the Moon surface. You drop transmitter on the Moon surface with the record of fake landing and it transmits signal back to Earth - you don't need to care about this hardest part any longer as well as don't have to risk human lives. Or another scenario - you send suicide spacemen with a one way ticket and just left them there. Why not? You can't identify people on these tapes, don't you? And I'm sure may would have volunteered even for a one way trip to Moon.

[Boris Godunov]

Serb, it's pretty well documented that the Soviets were closely monitoring the Apollo missions.

http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/numbers/271/03.shtml

As for your other point, do you have any actual evidence the astronauts did not set foot on the moon, or is this all just based on your personal incredulity?

[BlackCat]

I never questioned the fact that Apollo reached the Moon. Was it a manned or unmanned spacecraft is another thing however. From my understanding the hardest part of the programm was to deliver astronauts back to mothership from the Moon surface. You drop transmitter on the Moon surface with the record of fake landing and it transmits signal back to Earth - you don't need to care about this hardest part any longer as well as don't have to risk human lives. Or another scenario - you send suicide spacemen with a one way ticked and just left them there. Why not? You can't identify people on these tapes, don't you?

We now has established that not only did NASA get something in orbit around the moon, but also that something did actually land there.

"That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind."

[Flubber]

I never questioned the fact that Apollo reached the Moon. Was it a manned or unmanned spacecraft is another thing however. From my understanding the hardest part of the programm was to deliver astronauts back to mothership from the Moon surface. You drop transmitter on the Moon surface with the record of fake landing and it transmits signal back to Earth - you don't need to care about this hardest part any longer as well as don't have to risk human lives. Or another scenario - you send suicide spacemen with a one way ticked and just left them there. Why not? You can't identify people on these tapes, don't you?

The suicide astronaut theory? Interesting. When you go to this extreme in a theory , then it becomes harder and harder to disprove. In this theory a man would walk on the moon (so all the film is real) and vehicles would be left behind . The secret and conspiracy part would be how you got those suicide spacemen into space (and repeated it in later missions) without someone who wasn't "in on it" wondering who they were.

There might be a sticky point about all these suicide astronauts still being on the moon but proper suit composition could ensure they vaporized or were melted by acid or something I'm sure .

Suicide spacemen-- I LOVE it!!!

[Flubber]

We now has established that not only did NASA get something in orbit around the moon, but also that something did actually land there.

"That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind."

Be fair

Serb has a suicide astronaut on the moon or a transmitter dropped there

HL still has the astronauts circling the earth in a relatively low orbit without anyone on earth noticing that the ship or the transmissions were not at the moon

[Serb]

Suicide spacemen-- I LOVE it!!!

Who doesn't?

[Flubber]

Who doesn't?

Make the suicide guys the clones of the actual astronauts and THEN you wouldn't have any inconvenient missing people anywhere and less work to get them on a spacecraft.

ONly problem is that if men actually walked on the moon ( even suicide spacemen) then most of the "facts" used by conspiracy theorists with respect to lighting of photos etc etc would be of no account

[Serb]

Serb, it's pretty well documented that the Soviets were closely monitoring the Apollo missions.

http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/numbers/271/03.shtml

Not so closely. This Soviet station could track Apollo transmissions only during a limited period of time daily. And the quality of signal was very low (look at the last picture, could you tell what the heck it is?).
And your own article says that Soviet ballistics used open info (American radio announcements) for their calculations.

As for your other point, do you have any actual evidence the astronauts did not set foot on the moon,

And how do you think?

or is this all just based on your personal incredulity?

Sure. I think there are a lot of very suspicion things in this story. And it actually could be very cool if it was a hoax. 'cause if it's so, that would be a hoax of milenium. And its magnitude comparable with the magnitude of the actual Moon landing. Imagine one day NASA says: guys, we f*cked the brains of the entire humanity for 40 years with that Moon crap. And guess what? You bought that. We have LOAO here in NASA feeding you all this bullsh!t all these years.

[Serb]

Make the suicide guys the clones of the actual astronauts and THEN you wouldn't have any inconvenient missing people anywhere and less work to get them on a spacecraft.

Who needs clones? You substitute real astronauts with unknown suicide guys just before the launch and then shot the movie how they safely arrived back to Earth.

[Boris Godunov]

Sure.

And that evidence would be...?

EDIT: You DanSed.

[Flubber]

Who needs clones? You substitute real astronauts with unknown suicide guys just before the launch and then shot the movie how they safely arrived back to Earth.

I never said you needed clones but clones would mean there are no missing people. The suicide squad has to come from somewhere after all and I doubt your average street vagrant would be appropriate.

Also clones would make it easier. Anyone at the space centre would see the right folks boarding with no need to sneak other folks on.

[Flubber]

Sure. I think there are a lot of very suspicion things in this story. And it actually could be very cool if it was a hoax. 'cause if it's so, that would be a hoax of milenium. And its magnitude comparable with the magnitude of the actual Moon landing. Imagine one day NASA says: guys, we f*cked the brains of the entire humanity for 40 years with that Moon crap. And guess what? You bought that. We have LOAO here in NASA feeding you all this bullsh!t all these years.

I agree it would be "cool" if it was a hoax but as I have said repeatedly, the number of people that would have known at the time or would have had to be told since (all head NASA folks, every president) . . . it defies logic that this secret would stay secret.

With very limited exceptions, people want to tell stuff and its hard to keep big secrets. Could a large group of scientists working on something big keep that secret for a while? sure. I can see that and its been accomplished to some extent.

BUt can a group keep a secret for years and years after it is really that relevant and a secret that involves a major deception on the American public that at least some of the "secret-knowers" would fundamentally disagree with. Hell its a secret that for sure some politician could have used at some point to embarrass someone else.

So cool or not, I have a very tough time believing the hoax theories. The idea that it actually happened fits better with all available facts

[Solomwi]

I never said you needed clones but clones would mean there are no missing people. The suicide squad has to come from somewhere after all and I doubt your average street vagrant would be appropriate.

Also clones would make it easier. Anyone at the space centre would see the right folks boarding with no need to sneak other folks on.

Uh, Flubber? Remember one of the other big news stories of the day, a little thing called Vietnam? Americans were going missing over there every day. There would be no suspicion over the suicide astronauts' disappearance if their loved ones thought they were missing in 'Nam. Connect the dots, my Canadian friend. Connect the dots.

[BlackCat]

Be fair

Serb has a suicide astronaut on the moon or a transmitter dropped there

HL still has the astronauts circling the earth in a relatively low orbit without anyone on earth noticing that the ship or the transmissions were not at the moon

One step at a time