Why haven't we been back to the moon?

[Flubber]

1. A few people expressed serious doubts about NASA's capability to make it to the moon. A couple of them ended up dead. One of them was an astronaut and was burned alive in a very preventable test 'accident'. That tends to keep people in line. Not to mention simply losing your job and your livelihood if you cross the higher-ups. Keeping secrets in highly compartmentalized organizations is extremely easy.
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Seriously dude???? I adopt N35tor's rebuttal example by reference.

2. I addressed the Soviet angle. It's weak.
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Really? Your rebuttal seems to be that they must have been in on it. You have no evidence and it flies in the face of the international relations of the time butyou assume anyway. Then again isn't that the argument style of a conspiracy theorist. Anyone that doesn't agree with your theory and who might have contrary actual knowledge must have been part of the conspiracy.

3. Lots of people could have tracked it. But did they? The page linked earlier said they were in cahoots with NASA. Next.
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So you think that no one tracked the thing when this was probably the biggest news story going. Anyone with a decent telescope could see the freaking thing. Let me guess, you think astronomy and other planets is a conspiracy and really all there is is one big IMAX screen encirling the earth so the conspirators just played the appropriate movie. Or perhaps our alien friends from Area 57 co-operated with the US and ran one of their spaceships for a cruise from the earth to the moon and back?

4. Filming a 'moon' mission in the desert and broadcasting it on TV is a hell of a lot easier than flying 240,000 miles into outer space, parking on the moon, cruising around in a moon buggy, taking impossibly lit and composed pictures, packing your **** up, and flying 240,000 miles back.

This is the only thing you said that made ANY sense. I will concede for teh purpose of this discussion that its easier to shoot a realistic moon movie than it is to actually go to the moon, but that ignores the fact that making a movie would be the least of your problems.

a) did the rocket actually take off?-- Given numerous witesses, you would have to concede that in any theory it did. But where did it go? as per points 2-3 above, lots of people would have noticed if it just circled the earth

b) moon rock samples-- where did they come from? Extra weight going up would be an issue wouldn't it so were they planted later? by whom? Is every geologist that looked at these rocks in on it to?

c) Wouldn't you need incredible computerization to make all the gauges and readings accord with what SHOULD happen on an actual moon landing. After all the highly compartmentalized dude who knows nothing of the conspiracy might just notice if the hull temp is too high or when he goes off shift that his telescope doesn't show the capsule where it should be? Any shot I have seen of a space control centre (in the 60s or now) shows lots of folks studying readings intently

d) If they did it the first time they would need to repeat it again and again despite personell changes etc etc.

[Darius871]

Always projecting exaggerated claims onto me.

You're the one who claimed, in black and white, "[k]eeping secrets in highly compartmentalized organizations is extremely easy[,]" not me. I'm simply asking what your basis is for that specific claim, considering that it is inconsistent with the flurry of leaks we've seen from Daniel Ellsberg to Watergate to Iran-Contra to Plame to warrantless wiretapping and everything in between, and that it seems to disregard that neither those in charge of opsec nor their electronic gadgets are omniscient.

Or do you believe that "they" have acquired and are hiding mindreading technology as well? You might as well adopt that belief since it's convenient to you and I can't falsify it.

[Flubber]

:

Or do you believe that "they" have acquired and are hiding mindreading technology as well? You might as well adopt that belief since it's convenient to you and I can't falsify it.

Why not go futher? Perhaps our entire reality is fabricated and we are all completely mind-wiped and reprogrammed on a regular basis.

[Darius871]

Why not go futher? Perhaps our entire reality is fabricated and we are all completely mind-wiped and reprogrammed on a regular basis.

Don't give him any ideas. Though I guess that theory would fail to explain why a chosen few fortunate souls like zakuHL are "immune" while feeble minds like ours are so susceptible to the reprogramming. Maybe he's Neo, or Luke, or something.

[N35t0r]

There is no spoon.

[HalfLotus]

Seriously dude???? I adopt N35tor's rebuttal example by reference.

Many question marks does not a good rebuttal make. Ditto for your out of hand dismissal of the effectiveness of job termination in keeping people's mouths shut.

Really? Your rebuttal seems to be that they must have been in on it.

No. My rebuttal re: the Russians was that it wouldn't matter if they called BS anyway, they'd get smeared as being lunatics and the herd would trample all over them. You should know exactly how that works, or can you not see outwardly from the herd?

So you think that no one tracked the thing when this was probably the biggest news story going.

Until I see evidence suggesting otherwise, that is what I think. Do you have compelling evidence of Apollo being tracked to the moon and back by an independent source, or are you just assuming that it was? You really shouldn't assume.

Let me guess, you think astronomy and other planets is a conspiracy and really all there is is one big IMAX screen encirling the earth so the conspirators just played the appropriate movie. Or perhaps our alien friends from Area 57 co-operated with the US and ran one of their spaceships for a cruise from the earth to the moon and back?

If your argument is so rock solid and unassailable then why resort to this kind of nonsense? I have not said a word about aliens or IMAX, yet you pull it out of thin air and try to smear my other views by association.

You're convinced of the popular belief system, and when challenged by facts you immediately attack with the most effective form of propaganda - ridicule. Why? Because you're afraid of the answers you might find if you ask hard questions, so you regress to a childish, emotional, knee-jerk reaction. Ditto for the name-callers, smiley spammers, and other children here. Sheep, the lot of them.

[Darius871]

Until I see evidence suggesting otherwise, that is what I think.

Do you even understand that the above sentence is essentially the definition of at least faulty logic, if not also deranged thinking?

Haven't you ever learned from education or experience that a belief should be affirmatively supported by evidence, not held in the first instance until disproven by contrary evidence?

[HalfLotus]

Don't break a blood vessel there Darius.

Given that scant evidence has appeared in the past 40 years of Apollo being independently tracked to the moon and back, I find it highly unlikely that it was tracked in that manner.

On the other hand we have Flubber & Horse presenting as evidence that the Apollo missions were genuine simply the fact that they 'could be' tracked, which obviously proves nothing.

[rah]

Actually not considering any proof either way, I'd believe it was real just because it would have been easier to do then fake it and hide it for all these years. The chances for discovering a hoax would have much too great.
(And I was alive at the time and watched it, and even looked through a telescope and saw the little object that was (supposedly) the space craft. It seemed real at the time and nothing I've seen convinces me otherwise. I don't think that makes me a sheep at all.

I wonder if most of the doubters are those that were alive at the time or were born after.

[Ming]

Given that scant evidence has appeared in the past 40 years of Apollo being independently tracked to the moon and back, I find it highly unlikely that it was tracked in that manner.

And again... what real evidence is there that it was a hoax. Every claim by the hoax crowd has been debunked over and over again. Independent organizations have supported the landing with evidence like pictures of the left behind launch vehicles... and numerious other support documentation. Again, where is your REAL evidence that it was a hoax? There is far more evidence supporting an actual landing!

I can't believe some people can't see the true facts for what they are.

But sure, go ahead and believe it didn't happen... it just makes you look silly to most people who actually think for themselves and look at he real facts of the case without having some nut job trying to cram their warped and incorrect view of reality down their throat.

[N35t0r]

No. My rebuttal re: the Russians was that it wouldn't matter if they called BS anyway, they'd get smeared as being lunatics and the herd would trample all over them. You should know exactly how that works, or can you not see outwardly from the herd?

So your opinion of what would happen is plain truth, but 5 other people's opinion, who happen to agree with each other, is not seeing outwardly from the herd?

Until I see evidence suggesting otherwise, that is what I think. Do you have compelling evidence of Apollo being tracked to the moon and back by an independent source, or are you just assuming that it was? You really shouldn't assume.

As noted above, I do. Do you have compelling evidence of apollo being tracked in LEO for the entirety of the time it was supposed to be going to the moon and back?

If your argument is so rock solid and unassailable then why resort to this kind of nonsense? I have not said a word about aliens or IMAX, yet you pull it out of thin air and try to smear my other views by association.

Well, you ignore arguments and reply with nonsense, so we tried this method as well, we might stand a better chance of you realising the silliness of your idea. (Please note you are calling that nonsense... why are you doing that? do you have compelling evidence of it not being a conspiracy kept secret by the few who know about it? why do you apply double standards to what is and isn't nonsense, and what needs and what doesn't need 'compelling' evidence to be proven right?)

You're convinced of the popular belief system, and when challenged by facts you immediately attack with the most effective form of propaganda - ridicule. Why?

Because you ignored the first 4 pages of arguments. Maybe you do understand ridicule?

Because you're afraid of the answers you might find if you ask hard questions, so you regress to a childish, emotional, knee-jerk reaction. Ditto for the name-callers, smiley spammers, and other children here. Sheep, the lot of them.

[Boris Godunov]

Given that scant evidence has appeared in the past 40 years of Apollo being independently tracked to the moon and back, I find it highly unlikely that it was tracked in that manner.

You've summarily dismissed, without any real justification, the abundant evidence presented as to its tracking.

Your personal incredulity because you're too willfully ignorant and/or stupid to consider the evidence does not present a problem for reality.

[Serb]

Nope

So your belief is that "the conspirators" fooled all of NASA into thinking they had succeeded when they actually had not?

Not nescesary all of NASA.

So was the launch faked and the astronauts lounged on a beach for a couple of days?

Launch=/ moon landing.

[Serb]

If the moon landings were fake, then the Russians were the stupidest pussies on the planet for giving up their moon program after the Apollo missions and not raising even the possibility that the USA faked it at the time.

I didn't say we were smart.

[Boris Godunov]

That's self-evident by observing the trajectory of Russian civilization since the death of Alexander II.