I have been infected by the H1N1 and am in great pain

[Wezil]

And again: between 60-70 million people have been vaccinated. Zero serious side effects.

Really?

Severe H1N1 reactions in 48 Canadians
December 4, 2009

Joanna Smith
OTTAWA BUREAU


OTTAWA – The Public Health Agency of Canada says 48 people nationwide have experienced severe allergic reactions to the swine flu vaccine since the immunization campaign began two months ago.

The agency updated its vaccine surveillance report Friday to show 2,574 adverse reactions to the H1N1 influenza vaccine had been reported by provinces and territories as of Nov. 20.

About 12.3 million doses of the vaccine had been shipped across the country by that point.

The report says 135 of those side effects were considered serious.

Forty-eight of those serious cases involved anaphylaxis, a severe reaction that some people can experience when they are allergic to bee stings or peanuts and can be treated with an immediate shot of adrenaline.

One person has died following an anaphylactic reaction, which Quebec health authorities have said was an octogenarian in that province.

The rate of anaphylaxis so far has been about 0.39 reactions out of 100,000 doses distributed.

Vaccine manufacturer GlaxoSmithKline Inc. is producing the Canadian order of 50.4 million doses at its plant in Ste-Foy, Que.

One lot of its vaccine had to be put on hold when it was discovered the rate of serious adverse events was higher in that batch than in others.

An investigation into what went wrong with that batch of roughly 172,000 doses is still ongoing.

The reporting rate of adverse events – whether mild or serious – is 21 per 100,000 doses distributed.

http://www.healthzone.ca/health/article/734576--severe-h1n1-reactions-in-48-canadians

[KrazyHorse]

I'm beginning to understand why you get your panties in such a twist when people bungle physics concepts.

I have sympathy for doctors because people tend to opine on medical issues without the competence to do so, the same as they do in physics (specifically cosmology, high-energy physics, quantum mechanics and relativity).

[Asher]

Wezil, allergic reactions are not unexpected and unavoidable.

[Lorizael]

Won't be getting it because I hate needles and I'm not a member of any high risk demographics.

[Wezil]

Wezil, allergic reactions are not unexpected and unavoidable.

Are they a "serious side effect"?

[KrazyHorse]

Wezil, when you're dealing with rates as low as those you have to be careful that you aren't simply picking up events which have no causal relationship with the vaccination, and simply occur soon after the vaccination.

I am not claiming any expertise in this specific instance, but I do know that you need some sort of control group (or at least a baseline sample) if you want to draw that type of conclusion.

[Asher]

Are they a "serious side effect"?

No. They're allergic/averse reactions. Someone will always be allergic to something in this world -- whether it be milk, peanuts, or some of the components of the vaccine. When you do it en masse you will get people who had allergies they didn't know about. Again, that's completely expected and unavoidable.

What I believe Guy is referring to are serious side effects -- not allergies. For instance, you take the vaccine and you become paralyzed.

[MOBIUS]

Are they a "serious side effect"?

Correct me if I’m wrong (again), but as far as allergic reactions are concerned, in the most case people already know they have particular allergies and thus this sort of reaction to the vaccine is avoidable? Assuming they tell their doctor.

[KrazyHorse]

To put some numbers on this, the average human being lives about 700 000 hours. If every person has 1 serious, sudden medical problem in their lifetime then the reported rate for serious, sudden medical problems which occur in the hour after receiving a flu shot would be 0.14 per hundred thousand

[MOBIUS]

Wow, you're so clever KH - I think I'm in love!

[KrazyHorse]

I know you're in love.

[Wezil]

Wezil, when you're dealing with rates as low as those you have to be careful that you aren't simply picking up events which have no causal relationship with the vaccination, and simply occur soon after the vaccination.

I am not claiming any expertise in this specific instance, but I do know that you need some sort of control group (or at least a baseline sample) if you want to draw that type of conclusion.

Understood.

So my position is clear - I'm not claiming the vaccine is a bad idea as I'm sure the potential risk from the vaccine is far lower than the potential risk from swine flu. I just don't believe the vaccine risk = 0.

Asher - Did these people with the allergic reactions know ahead of time they would react this way? An allergic reaction is a side effect. The extent of the reaction will determine how "serious" it was.

[Guynemer]

I do ahve a basic understanding of flue vaccines.

I didn't mean to say I don't trust the vaccine itself. I don't want to support the entire mass hysteria behind it.

The can wake me up when there is a strain around killing 1 in 10. Then we should use Tamiflu and get vaccinated.

You said "medicine rushed to market," which was the specific claim I was refuting.

As I said, if you don't want to be vaccinated due to the virus' typically mild symptoms, then I can't argue with you.

[Wezil]

I won't be getting the vaccine as I don't care for needles and am not in a high risk group. I'm considering a hermit quarantine for the next couple months.

[Guynemer]

I apologize, I did in fact state anaphylaxis in my earlier claim, I honestly don't know why I did so as I knew that not to be the case. It's been a long week.

What I should have said was no Guillan-Barre, no sudden death, etc. Unfortunately, with any medicine (or food, or skin cream, or shampoo for heaven's sake), there is a miniscule risk of catastrophic allergic reaction.