97th Grey Cup: Saskatchewan Rough Riders vs Montreal Alouettes

[Asher]

Here's another from 2006:

http://www.thestar.com/article/280068

it's doubtful that a league that pays players an average salary of about $60,000 a year would be able to cobble together a program to rival the NFL's.

[ShaneWalter]

You clearly don't understand cap economics, which probably isn't your fault because no one in Saskatchewan seems to be able to figure it out.

You need padding in your cap for things like injuries. The simple math as you do it doesn't make any sense.

The numbers I've seen show the mean is ~65,000 a year which, again, I find silly as I made more than that in my first job out of university. And I'm pretty sure lots of these guys played college ball...

I didn't make an allowance for caps precisely because I was using a figure of 58 players, which is higher than the actual roster size of 46.

Okay so now you say the median wage you heard was $65,000... before you posted a link saying about $40,000. Well my back of the napkin calculation came out to $72,000. Not really a big difference. As far as how much you made out of college, frankly nobody cares. $65,000 is significantly higher than the median wage in Canada, and even higher than the median wage for a university educated Canadian.

I just find it hard to take a pro sport seriously when the players are clearly not highly valued. The fact that the league is so small doesn't help. How can anyone take a sport seriously if SASKATCHEWAN is a major player? Come on, now.

Seriously? Hmm... now why would Saskatchewan have a team in a CANADIAN league? I guess only Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, and Vancouver should have a team. Yeah! That's the ticket!

Look, you don't like the CFL, I get it. Just say that. You find the sport boring. Whatever. Just don't try to make these idiotic Ben-like justifications and then backtrack continuously. ("The median wage is $40,000." "I mean to say - the figures I've seen are $65,000.") It is annoying.

[Asher]

Now you could claim you were ignorant of this, and thats why you used the article except I find that not compelling because:
1) I'm supposed to believe that the first article you came across was one from 7 years ago that just happened to support your point?

It's cited on dozens of websites and sourced from a TSN story. And from what I'm seeing the situation has NOT changed significantly.

That's just a joke. For the most part, arena football players get paid nowhere near what CFL players get paid. Maybe they did 10 years ago, but not today.

You're just ****ing lying to me now.

You're telling me no arena football players get near $41,000/yr?

As far as the "following the best," the CFL is the highest class of football league - in Canada. I suppose if you were in Australia you'd refuse to watch Australian rules football, also? Or if you were Irish you'd never watch Rugby?

I'm telling you I wouldn't watch a Saudi Arabian hockey team, nor would I watch Canadian football.

[KrazyHorse]

kay so now you say the median wage you heard was $65,000... before you posted a link saying about $40,000. Well my back of the napkin calculation came out to $72,000

MEAN. YOU CANNOT CALCULATE MEDIAN BY DIVIDING TOTAL BY NUMBER OF PLAERS.

[Asher]

I didn't make an allowance for caps precisely because I was using a figure of 58 players, which is higher than the actual roster size of 46.

Okay so now you say the median wage you heard was $65,000

I've not once used the word median. It's clear to me you don't understand the difference.

... before you posted a link saying about $40,000. Well my back of the napkin calculation came out to $72,000. Not really a big difference. As far as how much you made out of college, frankly nobody cares.

Frankly, you do, because you took issue with the comment and that's what started your ridiculous rant.

$65,000 is significantly higher than the median wage in Canada, and even higher than the median wage for a university educated Canadian.

Bull ****ing ****.

We're not comparing what football players make compared to the average farmer or inner-city kid. Why do you keep talking about that. Who ****ing cares. I'm not saying these people cannot afford a living, I'm saying it's absolutely ****ing pathetic for a professional sports player to make that much money. They're not highly valued, if they were they'd be paid more. They're dime a dozen players. Better than average, I'm sure, but not worth getting excited over.

Seriously? Hmm... now why would Saskatchewan have a team in a CANADIAN league? I guess only Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, and Vancouver should have a team. Yeah! That's the ticket!

Quit being ****ing retarded. You're dangerously close to being lumped together with Ben.

I never asked why Saskatchewan had a team, I'm taking issue with the size of the league. And yes, in 2010 a Canadian-only league is a ridiculously ****ing stupid idea. The talent base and fan base are too small to have an interesting league.

Look, you don't like the CFL, I get it. Just say that.

I have been.

You find the sport boring. Whatever. Just don't try to make these idiotic Ben-like justifications and then backtrack continuously. ("The median wage is $40,000." "I mean to say - the figures I've seen are $65,000.") It is annoying.

**** off. There's no actual hard numbers for the MEAN wage (NOT MEDIAN, FIGURE OUT THE DIFFERENCE), there's only estimates and ballpark figures which ALL VARY WILDLY, but even by the most OPTIMISTIC salary comparisons my original statement holds true, which YOU seemed to take issue with.

I get it. You're from Saskatchewan. There's NOTHING in that province except for Riders football because it is an insignificant province with an insignificant team with insignificant players playing an insignificant sport. Yeah, the truth hurts, but suck it up, princess.

[Asher]

This 2007 article from the EDMONTON JOURNAL and hosted on the OFFICIAL CANADIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE website gives even more grim numbers (which I'm pretty sure are not even possible )

http://www.cfl.ca/article/awe_inspiring_peek_at_cfl_for_golden_bears

While saying the Eskimos over the last six years have had more success picking players out of the Canadian colleges than from south of the border, Maciocia also reminded the Bears of the importance of their education, with the average CFL salary being about $35,000.

"So you have to have a plan in place," he said.

"The (CFL players') lifespan is about three years. Even if you get to play seven, eight, nine seasons, there won't be enough money to retire."

[ShaneWalter]

It's cited on dozens of websites and sourced from a TSN story. And from what I'm seeing the situation has NOT changed significantly.

You are linking me to articles from sites called "verasburgershack." Like seriously? You think that is a valid source of information?

You've said previously that what you've heard is a figure about $65,000. That is something I'd agree with. I don't even know why you're even arguing this anymore.

You're just ****ing lying to me now.

You're telling me no arena football players get near $41,000/yr?

"For the most part"

10 years ago, some players would leave the CFL to play in the arena football league. I have never heard of that happening in recent times. I have seen a few players join the Arena football league after they were cut from their CFL team.

Actually, I just found an article discussing Arena league salaries:

AFL salaries are modest, with most players earning between $40,000 and $50,000 per season. The league minimum is $31,000, and the average salary, boosted by the contracts of a handful of franchise players who earn six figures, is $80,000. Most arena athletes hold non-football jobs during the offseason.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/2009/01/20/2009-01-20_arena_football_league_players_cry_foul_a.html#ixzz0Y5qUKpEz

League minimum is $31,000? Franchise players get paid $80,000? Seriously? I mean it depends what they define as franchise players, but franchise players get upwards of $150,000 in the CFL... with starting QB's typically getting upwards of $350,000.

I'm telling you I wouldn't watch a Saudi Arabian hockey team, nor would I watch Canadian football.

See, that is not a valid analogy. My analogies with Australian rules football and european Rugby maybe weren't really that valid either since neither sport can easily be substituted with American football. The main point though that I was trying to make is that the CFL is it's own league, with it's own history and independent development.

It isn't like some Canadian watched an NFL game in 1981 and was like "hey we should have a league like that in Canada." Three downs, 12 men, no yards instead of fair catch, these rules all developed, not because the CFL wanted to differentiate itself from the NFL but rather because the CFL developed independently of the NFL.

How about, if you were Swedish, would you then refuse to watch Swedish Elite League games, instead tuning in NHL games on satellite?

[ShaneWalter]

This 2007 article from the EDMONTON JOURNAL and hosted on the OFFICIAL CANADIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE website gives even more grim numbers (which I'm pretty sure are not even possible )

http://www.cfl.ca/article/awe_inspir...r_golden_bears

Oh I didn't read your comment, I just read the article, nevermind.

[ShaneWalter]

I've not once used the word median. It's clear to me you don't understand the difference.


Frankly, you do, because you took issue with the comment and that's what started your ridiculous rant.


Bull ****ing ****.

We're not comparing what football players make compared to the average farmer or inner-city kid. Why do you keep talking about that. Who ****ing cares. I'm not saying these people cannot afford a living, I'm saying it's absolutely ****ing pathetic for a professional sports player to make that much money. They're not highly valued, if they were they'd be paid more. They're dime a dozen players. Better than average, I'm sure, but not worth getting excited over.


Quit being ****ing retarded. You're dangerously close to being lumped together with Ben.

I never asked why Saskatchewan had a team, I'm taking issue with the size of the league. And yes, in 2010 a Canadian-only league is a ridiculously ****ing stupid idea. The talent base and fan base are too small to have an interesting league.


I have been.


**** off. There's no actual hard numbers for the MEAN wage (NOT MEDIAN, FIGURE OUT THE DIFFERENCE), there's only estimates and ballpark figures which ALL VARY WILDLY, but even by the most OPTIMISTIC salary comparisons my original statement holds true, which YOU seemed to take issue with.

I get it. You're from Saskatchewan. There's NOTHING in that province except for Riders football because it is an insignificant province with an insignificant team with insignificant players playing an insignificant sport. Yeah, the truth hurts, but suck it up, princess.

Okay, so you don't think Canadians should have their own league in anything. That's pretty much what this comes down to.

We should watch the NFL and the NBA and if we're lucky they might throw us a franchise or two. Oh, we've got the NHL too, and as long as the dollar doesn't tank again we'll be able to keep 6 NHL franchises, that maybe all combined they might be able to win a Stanley Cup once every two decades! Fantastic.

[KrazyHorse]

Shane, I don't agree with Asher's contention that the only worthwhile leagues are those at the highest level of competition.

However, having watched both leagues it's pretty obvious that the talent level in the NFL blows away that in the CFL.

Doesn't mean that the CFL shouldn't exist, but the fact that the league minimum for NFL players is higher than all but a couple of the CFL salaries tells you everything you need to know. Basically, none of the CFL players could make it even as 3rd stringers in the NFL.

[Asher]

You are linking me to articles from sites called "verasburgershack." Like seriously? You think that is a valid source of information?

Well, two things make you look like an idiot here:
1) They hosted the article, but the article was from SportsXtra, a nationwide Canadian sports magazine
2) The guy who owns Vera's Burger Shack is a current CFL player. Yeah, oops.

You've said previously that what you've heard is a figure about $65,000. That is something I'd agree with. I don't even know why you're even arguing this anymore.

You're the one arguing with me about it. All of these numbers I'm quoting I consider very low and yes, are less than what I made right out of university. You're the one that had a problem with that statement, not me.

League minimum is $31,000?

US dollars. That's virtually identical to the CFL's. So much for your statement, eh...

See, that is not a valid analogy.

It is, you just don't like them. Canada doesn't make many GREAT football players. It's just not in our blood like it is in the USA. Gifted Canadian athletes play hockey.

Having a professional league of a sport in Canada that's simply not very popular is not something to be proud of. Attendance is terrible for the CFL except for a couple places, like Saskatchewan, which have -- literally -- nothing else around for hundreds of kilometers to entertain them. Once you add in another sports team -- ANY sports team -- and people don't give a **** about the CFL.

It isn't like some Canadian watched an NFL game in 1981 and was like "hey we should have a league like that in Canada." Three downs, 12 men, no yards instead of fair catch, these rules all developed, not because the CFL wanted to differentiate itself from the NFL but rather because the CFL developed independently of the NFL.

The rules exist to differentiate themselves because they need to be. Don't be so ****ing naive.

Look at the current slogan. It's all patriotic and ****. The CFL has different rules because it needs different rules to compete for players who are perhaps marginalized by the NFL's rules.

How about, if you were Swedish, would you then refuse to watch Swedish Elite League games, instead tuning in NHL games on satellite?

Assuming there was not the timezone differential, you are correct. I'd only watch SEL games to keep an eye on prospects.

I don't pay any attention to the WHL either, which would've been a better analogy for you. Even though Calgary apparently had an awesome team last year, I didn't even know about it until they were deep in the playoffs. And I shrugged when I found out.

When I thought I was moving to London for a year, the first thing I did was try to find out how to watch NHL games. I didn't look up the game schedules for the British hockey league.

[Asher]

Shane, I don't agree with Asher's contention that the only worthwhile leagues are those at the highest level of competition.

To be clear, I don't find them worthwhile as professional spectator sports.

Less competitive leagues have other benefits that make them worthwhile. Player development, fun for the players, etc.

I just don't see the point to the CFL aside from "it's Canadian and now we can have local football teams!". NFL football is a better sport. The players are more talented. The CFL is a cheap Canadian knockoff with little more entertainment value than watching a good US high school football team.

But the plus for watching leagues like the QMJHL, WHL, AHL, college football, etc? It's seeing the potential for players that may become a force in the real leagues.

The CFL has no such plus. When players are done with the CFL, they're done. The CFL is a last-stop on the end of a lacklustre career.

The CFL screams mediocrity which I'm afraid is an epidemic in Canada. The Leafs exhibit it to an extreme (though, to their credit, they are now worse than mediocre). The CBC annoys me to no end with its never-end mediocrity as well. It's something Canadians have become accustomed to and never challenge themselves for better. The CFL reminds me of all of the bad traits about Canada.

It also doesn't help that all Saskatchewan fans must be (1) overweight, (2) shirtless, (3) painted green.

Canadians think being different from the Americans makes people Canadian. That's why the CFL has its own stupid rules. That's why there's no worthwhile Canadian content on TV. It's sickening to me, really. The shows like Little Mosque on the Prairie, Corner Gas, etc are pathetic, and so is the CFL.

[KrazyHorse]

The CFL isn't a knockoff, dude. It's got its own independent history. The history of football as a sport involves a large Canadian contribution. Nobody's forcing you to watch a league with inferior talent; if Shane wants to do so then I don't see why you should rain on his parade this hard.

[Asher]

The CFL isn't a knockoff, dude. It's got its own independent history. The history of football as a sport involves a large Canadian contribution. Nobody's forcing you to watch a league with inferior talent; if Shane wants to do so then I don't see why you should rain on his parade this hard.

I know the CFL has a "long" history, it just doesn't matter.

Flip on the TV, you've got two games on: a CFL game which screams low-budget with a bunch of players that would never even be considered for an NFL team and *******s like Blue Rodeo doing the half-time show; and an NFL game that's an absolute spectacle with top-flight players.

Shane can watch it all he want, I'm not stopping him. I just hate the CFL with a passion. Not just because it exemplifies Canadian mediocrity, and not just because it defines Canadian as "not American", but because the fans are ridiculous douchebags. No matter where I go I see rednecks painted up in green paint with Riders flags out their pick-up truck windows screaming randomly. I even see them driving between Waterloo and London, ON. They must have an average IQ in the upper 70s.

[KrazyHorse]

at the thought that CFL fans are bigger douches than NFL fans...