97th Grey Cup: Saskatchewan Rough Riders vs Montreal Alouettes

[Asher]

A month ago I was leaving the Metro Toronto Convention centre after enjoying a Whisky show when an Argos/Ti-cats game got out and all of the ****ing CFL fans crowded onto the PATH walkways in Toronto. Drunk out of their ****ing minds, screaming randomly, pushing their way through rudely, screaming 'ARRRRRR GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS' and 'TIIIIIIIIIIIIII CATTTTTTTTTTTTTTS WOOOOOOOOOOOOO' constantly. My GOD, I'm boiling just thinking of these retards.

[Asher]

at the thought that CFL fans are bigger douches than NFL fans...

No idea if they are. Fortunately I don't know many NFL fans.

[ShaneWalter]

Shane, I don't agree with Asher's contention that the only worthwhile leagues are those at the highest level of competition.

However, having watched both leagues it's pretty obvious that the talent level in the NFL blows away that in the CFL.

Doesn't mean that the CFL shouldn't exist, but the fact that the league minimum for NFL players is higher than all but a couple of the CFL salaries tells you everything you need to know. Basically, none of the CFL players could make it even as 3rd stringers in the NFL.

I'd mostly agree with you. Most players in the NFL are significantly better than CFL players. The rule differences though, mean that some players in the NFL wouldn't cut it in the CFL, though. For example, I'd like to have seen that Ravens O-linemen that played on their Superbowl team... Tony Siragusa or something... play on a CFL Oline. Ricky Williams, who admittedly did do pretty well here, did not tear apart the league as he was predicted by many to do.

Still you are right, there is a significant difference in talent between the NFL and the CFL. I don't think I've stated otherwise though. Maybe I did? If I did, I didn't really mean that.

My main point has been that the CFL is probably the #2 league when it comes to football (the idea that the Arena League pays more than the CFL is pretty laughable) and that, moreover, it doesn't matter what ranking the CFL is anyway. That there is a better league in the USA doesn't somehow mean that there is no place for the CFL.

[ShaneWalter]

A month ago I was leaving the Metro Toronto Convention centre after enjoying a Whisky show when an Argos/Ti-cats game got out and all of the ****ing CFL fans crowded onto the PATH walkways in Toronto. Drunk out of their ****ing minds, screaming randomly, pushing their way through rudely, screaming 'ARRRRRR GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS' and 'TIIIIIIIIIIIIII CATTTTTTTTTTTTTTS WOOOOOOOOOOOOO' constantly. My GOD, I'm boiling just thinking of these retards.

I think that happens at any sporting event.

Okay... if you want to nitpick it probably doesn't happen at horse races or something like that.

[Asher]

My main point has been that the CFL is probably the #2 league when it comes to football (the idea that the Arena League pays more than the CFL is pretty laughable) and that, moreover, it doesn't matter what ranking the CFL is anyway. That there is a better league in the USA doesn't somehow mean that there is no place for the CFL.

I don't even like football or follow it and I know this to be bull****.

NCAA Football is far better than the CFL as well.

Why do you think there's no EA Sports CFL game?

[Asher]

Shane, consider this hypothetical scenario.

NFL expands into Canada. All cities with CFL teams now have NFL teams.

Does the CFL survive?

The CFL exists BECAUSE it is the only league in the country. It could never, ever survive with real competition. Witness the CFL American expansion attempts.

Even Toronto can barely sustain a team! And there's NO other football competition in the region...

[ShaneWalter]

I know the CFL has a "long" history, it just doesn't matter.

Flip on the TV, you've got two games on: a CFL game which screams low-budget with a bunch of players that would never even be considered for an NFL team and *******s like Blue Rodeo doing the half-time show; and an NFL game that's an absolute spectacle with top-flight players.

Shane can watch it all he want, I'm not stopping him. I just hate the CFL with a passion. Not just because it exemplifies Canadian mediocrity, and not just because it defines Canadian as "not American", but because the fans are ridiculous douchebags. No matter where I go I see rednecks painted up in green paint with Riders flags out their pick-up truck windows screaming randomly. I even see them driving between Waterloo and London, ON. They must have an average IQ in the upper 70s.

Also, to respond to this "we're Canadian because we're not American" argument that you think goes with the CFL, I don't really think thats why people watch the CFL at all. They just enjoy it.

Yeah, you're right, Regina could never get a NFL franchise. We won't ever have broadway calibre theatrical performances (well okay, sometimes they'll make a stopover in Regina or Saskatoon but rarely). Does that mean I'm wasting my time if I go watch a theatrical performance at the Regina Globe Theater downtown? I mean, clearly the best actors would go to New York or LA, so I really shouldn't watch such performances unless I happen to be in New York or LA, or there's some show on tour that happens to stop in Regina or Saskatoon? If I watch a performance in Regina, am I supporting mediocrity? Personally, I see it as an enjoyable a way to spend a Saturday or Sunday. The same way I see a CFL game.

[ShaneWalter]

Shane, consider this hypothetical scenario.

NFL expands into Canada. All cities with CFL teams now have NFL teams.

Does the CFL survive?

The CFL exists BECAUSE it is the only league in the country. It could never, ever survive with real competition. Witness the CFL American expansion attempts.

Even Toronto can barely sustain a team! And there's NO other football competition in the region...

I think this is a bit of a red herring argument.

The NFL would never expand to Regina or Winnipeg or... well pretty much the NFL would never expand anywhere except maybe Toronto, and personally I think even a Toronto NFL franchise is a pipe dream for many reasons.

It's like saying "If there was a theater company that had broadway quality theatrical performances in Regina, would you go there or would you continue to go to the theater you go to now?" I'm not supporting mediocrity by supporting the only theater in Regina.

[Asher]

I think this is a bit of a red herring argument.

The NFL would never expand to Regina or Winnipeg or... well pretty much the NFL would never expand anywhere except maybe Toronto, and personally I think even a Toronto NFL franchise is a pipe dream for many reasons.

It's like saying "If there was a theater company that had broadway quality theatrical performances in Regina, would you go there or would you continue to go to the theater you go to now?" I'm not supporting mediocrity by supporting the only theater in Regina.

But you are. If the theatre in Regina is mediocre, and you are supporting them, you are supporting mediocrity. It doesn't mean you can't enjoy it, necessarily, but it's time to face facts about the reality of the situation here.

[Asher]

Yeah, you're right, Regina could never get a NFL franchise. We won't ever have broadway calibre theatrical performances (well okay, sometimes they'll make a stopover in Regina or Saskatoon but rarely). Does that mean I'm wasting my time if I go watch a theatrical performance at the Regina Globe Theater downtown? I mean, clearly the best actors would go to New York or LA, so I really shouldn't watch such performances unless I happen to be in New York or LA, or there's some show on tour that happens to stop in Regina or Saskatoon? If I watch a performance in Regina, am I supporting mediocrity? Personally, I see it as an enjoyable a way to spend a Saturday or Sunday. The same way I see a CFL game.

How many CFL games do you go to live?

The problem with your analogy is you pretend like it is impossible to regularly see NFL games, like it is impossible to regularly see New York broadway performances.

NFL games are every bit as easy as CFL games to see, so the analogy is not valid. The only difference is the in-person experience, which I consider vastly overrated anyway.

[ShaneWalter]

How many CFL games do you go to live?

The problem with your analogy is you pretend like it is impossible to regularly see NFL games, like it is impossible to regularly see New York broadway performances.

NFL games are every bit as easy as CFL games to see, so the analogy is not valid. The only difference is the in-person experience, which I consider vastly overrated anyway.

I have season tickets. Usually I go to all of the (home) games. This year, I missed a couple games because school got in the way (I had to write a final exam during one game, and a midterm during another.)

[Asher]

Poor guy.

[ShaneWalter]

But you are. If the theatre in Regina is mediocre, and you are supporting them, you are supporting mediocrity. It doesn't mean you can't enjoy it, necessarily, but it's time to face facts about the reality of the situation here.

Well, IMO this is a bit of an equivocation. It is almost comparable to when I was in highschool and I'd have a girl over at my house and my Dad would always want to know who my girl friend is "She's not my girlfriend Dad." "Well she's a girl isn't she?" "Yeah" "and she's your friend, so she's a girlfriend!"

Whenever I've heard people say anything about "supporting mediocrity" the idea is that I should stop supporting mediocrity, because if I do then the person/organization will smarten up and improve. If they don't improve, that's okay, because the true superior people/organization will now be able to be seen and we can support them instead.

Given that you acted like supporting mediocrity was a bad thing, I don't think this is merely a misinterpretation by me, but rather it is an equivocation by you. Yes, I'm supporting mediocrity by going to a CFL game or by going to the local theater. If I stopped "supporting mediocrity" though, it wouldn't improve things. The local theater would shut down and if I wanted to watch a theatrical performance I'd now have to watch high school musicals. If I wanted to watch live football I'd have to watch the University of Regina Rams.

[Asher]

As long as we're in agreement that you like the CFL because it's the only football you can see, not because it's good.

[ShaneWalter]

As long as we're in agreement that you like the CFL because it's the only football you can see, not because it's good.

Well, pretty much. Not entirely though.

I think I already stated somewhere in the thread, but I also see the NFL as being kind of strange and foreign, just because I grew up watching CFL, and the rules in the CFL really do differ pretty significantly from NFL rules in some ways.

I'd rather watch a CFL game that doesn't involve or effect the Riders in any way (say a game between two eastern teams) rather than the NFL because of the 'foreignness' of the NFL. That isn't to say that I can't enjoy an NFL game, but it just doesn't seem right. I'm not saying the NFL is objectively worse either, it just isn't what I'm used to.

So basically, yeah, the CFL is all I can watch, and it's what I've always watched, and so that is why I watch it.

Edit: Ugh, I thought you said "not because it's better." This is ****ing retarded. On ignore you go.