Marois: English must fall back

[Fake Boris]

The increase I was talking about was also about Montreal.

[KrazyHorse]

fakeboris showing classic filosofer reasoning skills: English in QC is continually declining in usage, but the "fear" is that somehow those poor French Quebecers will get swallowed up by the English, or the immigrants, or somebody that just plain isn't like them.

The paranoia of a significant part of quebecois culture is almost funny if you haven't been on the wrong end of it.

[KrazyHorse]

The increase I was talking about was also about Montreal.

Would you please read what I wrote and keep up? What is your basis for the claim of a slight increase, given that 16% is pretty close to the number for ALL OF QUEBEC 35 years ago?

[Fake Boris]

BTW, there are a lot of figures available. Language used for business, education. Language used at home, (first, second, and third), etc.

It's a pain in the ass to recover data with Google. The non-biased consensus is that English is slowly increasing, despite the emigration following the first PQ election.

[KrazyHorse]

The reason I'm using QC as a proxy for Montreal, by the way, is that it's difficult to get city level data from multiple censuses ago.

[Kitschum]

10%

Oui est la, bien sur, c'est tabarnac, hein: "D'accord, est la, tu mettres on discutable surete, ca va." Comment aujourd'hui il y pas tu comme tout, non!? Canailles! Son foux! Cherchez a ma con et prendre ete la baise. Bah!

[KrazyHorse]

BTW, there are a lot of figures available. Language used for business, education. Language used at home, (first, second, and third), etc.

It's a pain in the ass to recover data with Google. The non-biased consensus is that English is slowly increasing, despite the emigration following the first PQ election.

In other words, you have no figures, and despite the inconvenient fact that a 16% figure for Montreal 35 years ago would have meant that Montreal was hardly any more English than the rest of QC, this is the "non-biased consensus"

Please.



Negres blanc d'amerique my ass.

[Fake Boris]

Look.

The % of the French population is down 0.4 points since 1976.

The percentage of the anglo/allophone population has remained the same, with the ratio shifting 12:8 to 8:12.

Most immigrants use English.

[Fake Boris]

Would you please read what I wrote and keep up? What is your basis for the claim of a slight increase, given that 16% is pretty close to the number for ALL OF QUEBEC 35 years ago?

English minorities outside of Montreal have been assimilated or they emigrated.

English has remained strong in Montreal and even increased due to massive immigration.

The combined effect of both is a slight increase.

(note that the population of Montreal has increased far more rapidly than the rest of Quebec.)

[Dinner]

Seriously, fakeboris: you might be the dumbest **** I've bothered to talk to today. Congratulations!

Fakeboris isn't bad compared to AAHZ.

[dannubis]

This thread is an exact copy of Belgian politics... A French minority making a lot of noise and making rediculous demands but still needing their neighbours to pay for the bills.

[Saras]

Fusiliers-Mont Royal

[Fake Boris]

Hey KH I did find some numbers after all.

Predominant use of English or English + other language at home (for the whole province) was 15% in 1971, and yes has fallen to 10.4% today.
As pointed out, what has risen is the use of languages other than French. If you factor in that 60% of immigrants work and get a postsecondary education in English, you would bring the number of "effective" anglophones at 14.5%, i.e. a slight decrease from 1971.

It is clearly my bad that I assumed the consensus of a slight increase to be about use of English at home. But your claim that the "native English population has gone down from 13% to 8%" is still disingenuous considering the real picture taking into account immigration.

Here are some other things to ponder about (showing that the vitality and usage of English is increasing):
a) natality of francophones is very low and unlikely to increase
b) immigration is increasing, natality of immigrants is much higher, and a majority of immigrants choose English
c) the number of francophones getting a postsecondary education in English is high (18,000/year, mostly in Montreal), the reverse is not true of anglophones
d) usage of English at work is on the rise again (for obvious reasons), not from the 60s, but since the 90s

So, despite:
a) natality of francophones remaining very high until the mid-70s;
b) Bill 101
c) 200 000 anglophones having left the province since 1976

French is clearly stagnating, i.e. without Bill 101 Quebec would become a pays basque français within two generations.

[Fake Boris]

fakeboris showing classic filosofer reasoning skills: English in QC is continually declining in usage, but the "fear" is that somehow those poor French Quebecers will get swallowed up by the English, or the immigrants, or somebody that just plain isn't like them.

The paranoia of a significant part of quebecois culture is almost funny if you haven't been on the wrong end of it.

And you are showing quite tremendous skills, assuming that presenting Marois' position in an endorsement of it.

The numbers show that French is precarious, no question. If you actually read my other posts you'd see that I described the PQ's position as posturing on language and immigration bull****.

In general, the paranoia of the English community is much higher than that of francophones. I don't recall any reputable French newspaper equating the British conquest or past abuses to "nazism" or some other bull****. I wish the opposite were true when West Islanders discuss Bill 101.

[Fake Boris]

Isn't it amazing how some people are just fine with oversea military operations and funding of military coups in the name of their values (liberal democracy and market economy) but get totally disgruntled at the "racism" or "intolerance" of a nation mandating public education to be in its official language?