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  • Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
    What do you call royalty forgiveness until costs of projects are recovered?
    They were still paying 1% royalties, and Alberta benefited massively from the investment. Huge employment, absurdly high wages, surging economy, higher tax intake, etc.

    Alberta certainly didn't fund the development, in any case! What an absurd statement.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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    • Originally posted by Asher View Post
      Why don't you make a list of the projects going forward and contrast it to the projects cancelled?

      Also keep in mind that the ones going forward were the ones too far ahead to cancel.

      Financing, the price of oil, and the labour/materials market in Alberta had no effect on those cancelled projects?

      It was all bad ol' Stelmach?
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      • Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
        Norway is doing a good job of it with difficult to get resources.
        If you think Norway and Alberta's resources are remotely comparable in terms of cost of recovery, then it just cements my impression that the only thing you know about the oil industry in Alberta is it is the reason why you don't pay any provincial sales tax.
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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        • Originally posted by Asher View Post
          They were still paying 1% royalties, and Alberta benefited massively from the investment. Huge employment, absurdly high wages, surging economy, higher tax intake, etc.

          Alberta certainly didn't fund the development, in any case! What an absurd statement.

          I didn't state that. I stated that we have paid for projects like Suncor and Syncrude.
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          • Originally posted by Asher View Post
            If you think Norway and Alberta's resources are remotely comparable in terms of cost of recovery, then it just cements my impression that the only thing you know about the oil industry in Alberta is it is the reason why you don't pay any provincial sales tax.

            Where did I say that?
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            • Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
              Financing, the price of oil, and the labour/materials market in Alberta had no effect on those cancelled projects?

              It was all bad ol' Stelmach?
              Strawmen are unbecoming.

              They all played a role, the royalties -- and more importantly, the impression that the Alberta government is not to be trusted -- were the straws that broke the camel's back in a lot of the cases. And yes, I actually KNOW this, it is NOT a theory.
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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              • Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
                I didn't state that. I stated that we have paid for projects like Suncor and Syncrude.
                How the hell do you think we paid for them? THIS MAKES NO SENSE. We didn't pay for anything.
                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                • Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
                  I just said they did have a gun (several of them) to their head.

                  The point is that gun has always been there, and in other jurisdictions they are larger and there are more of them.
                  THIS IS NOT A WINNER-TAKE-ALL COMPETITION.

                  Alberta doesn't win if it keeps its politicians slightly more in check than Venezuela.

                  Every bit of additional political risk that the companies believe they are bearing in dealing with the GofA is reflected in the prices they will pay.

                  How many ****ing times do I have to repeat this before it penetrates that rock you call a head?
                  12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                  Stadtluft Macht Frei
                  Killing it is the new killing it
                  Ultima Ratio Regum

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                  • Originally posted by Asher View Post
                    Strawmen are unbecoming.

                    They all played a role, the royalties -- and more importantly, the impression that the Alberta government is not to be trusted -- were the straws that broke the camel's back in a lot of the cases. And yes, I actually KNOW this, it is NOT a theory.

                    Cite?
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                    • Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
                      Where did I say that?
                      This squirming is bull****, nye.

                      You responded to my post explaining how expensive and difficult it is to get oil out of Alberta with a comment about how Norway seems to do a good job with getting "difficult to get resources".
                      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                      • Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
                        THIS IS NOT A WINNER-TAKE-ALL COMPETITION.

                        Alberta doesn't win if it keeps its politicians slightly more in check than Venezuela.

                        Every bit of additional political risk that the companies believe they are bearing in dealing with the GofA is reflected in the prices they will pay.

                        How many ****ing times do I have to repeat this before it penetrates that rock you call a head?

                        Suck my chocolate starfish.

                        I am saying that risk has been there since day one, and will always be there.

                        Any oil company that invested billions on the assumption that the politicians would always be freindly is an idiot.
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                        • Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
                          Cite?
                          My father is an exec with one of the oil companies pulling out. One of the last remaining employees winding things down. He managed his company's portion of one of the largest oil sands projects in Alberta, including the financial models.

                          I don't care if you don't believe me. I think Flubber may be able to back me up, at least with verifying my dad does do what I say he does. He's seen my dad's name on org charts.
                          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                          • Originally posted by Asher View Post
                            How the hell do you think we paid for them? THIS MAKES NO SENSE. We didn't pay for anything.

                            Through reduced royalties?
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                            • Originally posted by Asher View Post
                              My father is an exec with one of the oil companies pulling out. One of the last remaining employees winding things down. He managed his company's portion of one of the largest oil sands projects in Alberta, including the financial models.

                              I don't care if you don't believe me. I think Flubber may be able to back me up, at least with verifying my dad does do what I say he does. He's seen my dad's name on org charts.

                              I can't accept that.

                              The industry has a dog in the fight and it isn't beyond them to play politics, such as claim that the royalties are why they slowed drilling when drilling was already slowing due to price.
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                              • Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
                                Through reduced royalties?
                                Logic fail, holy ****.

                                We wouldn't have gotten a single ****ing dime from royalties without the project. You think taking a reduced amount of royalties while the risky projects invest hundreds of billions of dollars into capital is the province PAYING?

                                Alberta would have far less money without Syncrude and Suncor, so the notion that we PAID for their development is patently absurd.
                                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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