By Now, Bush Had 9/11 To Deal With. What Would Obama Do?

[Patroklos]

Who the heck know what Obama would do?? But whatever it would be, it'd be 10,000 time better than what Bush did.

He would have done exactly what Bush did, because at the time that was the right and really only thing that could be done.

[MrFun]

Yeah, and Teddy and his cronies beat it down because it wasn't their initiative. (universal health care anyway) So those that claim that it's all politics now, guess what, It's always been all politics. It's just a matter of who is currently holding the whip.

So now Republicans have changed their mind about supporting government/public health care plan option because the Democrats have taken it up as their initiative?

[Imran Siddiqui]

More like a different faction in the Republican party has become ascendant. The Nixon/Rockefeller Republicans haven't really had power since before Reagan.

[rah]

So now Republicans have changed their mind about supporting government/public health care plan option because the Democrats have taken it up as their initiative?

Yes, exactly. It's not about the american people's health care, it's all about politics. In the past, in the present, and in the future.

[MrFun]

More like a different faction in the Republican party has become ascendant. The Nixon/Rockefeller Republicans haven't really had power since before Reagan.

I see

[duke o' york]

I really don't understand why you don't want an NHS. Given the recent horrors in the economy, then why would bankers want to refuse the possibility that they may get potentially vital operations refused on the basis they couldn't afford them? You may be doing all right now, but a sudden shift in the markets can change things drastically, not that many people can remember the Great Depression these days. I think that a national support structure could do amazing things for you, helping the less successful better themselves, and supporting those who have fallen from the heights, as will inevitably happen in pursuit of the American dream.

[chequita guevara]

In all fairness, without specifics what would you have done. These warning were over a considerable period of time. Would you have shut down all air traffic for a few months? If I remember correctly there were similar type warnings during Clinton's reign.

I would have put armed sky marshals on random planes and asked the FBI to look into things. I imagine anyone competent would have also. Unfortunately, the Administration didn't want to do the former because it would cut into airline profits and didn't want to do the latter because they had focused the FBI away from counter-terrorism and on to anti-drug efforts.

We cannot say for certain that a competent Administration would have countered the threat, but its hard to imagine.

[rah]

armed sky marshals.
And what percentage of flights would you have increased it too. The odds of stopping 9/11 might have gone up from zip to really slim. Do you have any idea how many sky marshalls it would take to have made a difference.

[chequita guevara]

I really don't understand why you don't want an NHS. Given the recent horrors in the economy, then why would bankers want to refuse the possibility that they may get potentially vital operations refused on the basis they couldn't afford them?

To be honest, it's really not the capitalists who are opposing health care reform. All they have to do is look at the wreckage of GM to understand that lack of universal health care is crippling their competitiveness.

The problem is that the capitalist class is not monolithic, and a particular section of the capitalist class, finance capital, only wants reform that won't cut into their profits. Finance capital are like the capitalists of the capitalist class. What finance capital wants is mandatory insurance but no competition from the government. So we'll all have to buy it, even if we get subsidies, which means that the insurance companies have a guaranteed profit stream, and they can sell us ****ty insurance to boot.

In addition, you have the wing-nuts, those who oppose any government interference that doesn't promote their agenda: outlaw abortion, but no money for health care, etc. They are being organized by astroturf organizations. This convergence of finance capital and insane right-wing nuts is true fascism.

It's finally arrived.

[rah]

Ah, the joys of democracy.

[MrFun]

This convergence of finance capital and insane right-wing nuts is true fascism.

It's finally arrived.

Oh joy.

[-Jrabbit]

Yes, exactly. It's not about the american people's health care, it's all about politics. In the past, in the present, and in the future.

QFT. Best evidence of this is the blue dog Gang of 6.

But it's not just about Rep/Dem "mine is bigger" stuff. It's really about the health care lobbies -- pharma, insurance, facilities and doctors -- all of whom see their bloated houses of profit under attack. These people have more legislators in their pocket than the energy industry and NRA combined.

How else do you get a huge majority to abandon its own cause? A great example of how little our legislature cares about the actual people, and about who actually runs things in this country.

In college, I tended bar at a Chinese restaurant. The owner, Charlie, had a favorite phrase that applies here:

Money talk, bull**** walk.

[Dinner]

To be honest, it's really not the capitalists who are opposing health care reform. All they have to do is look at the wreckage of GM to understand that lack of universal health care is crippling their competitiveness.

The problem is that the capitalist class is not monolithic, and a particular section of the capitalist class, finance capital, only wants reform that won't cut into their profits. Finance capital are like the capitalists of the capitalist class. What finance capital wants is mandatory insurance but no competition from the government. So we'll all have to buy it, even if we get subsidies, which means that the insurance companies have a guaranteed profit stream, and they can sell us ****ty insurance to boot.

In addition, you have the wing-nuts, those who oppose any government interference that doesn't promote their agenda: outlaw abortion, but no money for health care, etc. They are being organized by astroturf organizations. This convergence of finance capital and insane right-wing nuts is true fascism.

It's finally arrived.

This is absolutely true.

[chequita guevara]

armed sky marshals.
And what percentage of flights would you have increased it too. The odds of stopping 9/11 might have gone up from zip to really slim. Do you have any idea how many sky marshalls it would take to have made a difference.

We have armed sky marshals now, Rah. Course it took 9/11 for that to happen. And that was just one example of the steps they could have taken once the realized that there were hijackings being planned.

I don't think it would have been all that hard to scrounge up several thousand marshals. What was lacking was the political will, fear that it would cut into airline profits, that any announcement of increased security would stop people from flying, etc.

9/11 could have been stopped, if the Administration had taken it seriously. Maybe they would have failed. Maybe, it was unlikely they would have succeeded in stopping the attacks. But they didn't even try. That is unforgivable.

[Zkribbler]

7 years.

How many Americans need to die needlessly before the U.S. decides it needs health care reform?