The Stimulus Is A Failure

[Hauldren Collider]

Ok since you're unable to pick up on it, the obvious reason behind countries less hard-hit by the crisis recovering faster is because they were not hit as hard. It says nothing about why they were not as hard hit. That statement may as well be a tautology. If you floor somebody it will take him longer to recover than if you tap him on the nose unless he's the incredible ****ing hulk.

Furthermore, your anger towards the concept of a corporation is ignorant and stupid. Corporations are a fundamental aspect of capitalism. They are at heart teams of people, and they're no more inherently wicked than your everyday rotten bastard/human being (same thing). I'm going to hazard a guess that you fall under at LEAST 3 of these 4 things:
a. Work for a corporation
b. Own stock in a corporation (401(k)'s especially)
c. Buy things from a corporation
d. Work at a place that sells things to a corporation

As for financial houses, such as banks, they facilitate sharing. They do what communism was never able to do: Take money from the rich and make it available to the poor. As long as it's eventually given back plus a little extra. You can borrow my ax as long as you return it sharper than you received it. Same thing. Seems reasonable to me but oh-no-it's-so-unfair-they-make-me-actually-pay-interest-bawwww seems to have been a major democratic platform plank for the last year.

And as for them screwing investors, what the **** do they have to gain by screwing investors? You think Wall Street has been conspiring against the public to make everyone poor and Washington DC, city of heroes, managed to uncover their devious plot? Why do so many people believe this retarded conspiracy theory? It's almost as absurd as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

[ricketyclik]

OK, let me spell out what I've been saying HC.

DT said Canada's recovering more quickly than the US because they have better economic managers. I pointed out that that Canada wasn't as badly hit, so maybe that's the reason they're recovering more quickly. I said it by way of describing being hit by the GFC as being screwed by [financial] corporations, as I believe that that was the root cause of the GFC - greed of the financial houses at the expense of the general good.

KH asked what I meant by that. I replied with what I meant by the above post.

As for corporations, I recognise that our financial systems are a relatively efficient means for production to meet the needs and wants of consumers, and that corporations serve a valuable role in civilization. However, I think their power is too unchecked, and that that ought to be addressed by more legal restrictions being applied to corporations... Or perhaps by the existing ones being enforced more stringently.

One must always remember that the goal of a corporation is first and foremost to maximise profits, whatever the extraneous costs.

[Hauldren Collider]

OK, let me spell out what I've been saying HC.
DT said Canada's recovering more quickly than the US because they have better economic managers. I pointed out that that Canada wasn't as badly hit, so maybe that's the reason they're recovering more quickly. I said it by way of describing being hit by the GFC as being screwed by [financial] corporations, as I believe that that was the root cause of the GFC - greed of the financial houses at the expense of the general good.

I don't think you're right about greed. I think applying greed to a corporation is kind of like accusing humans of breathing. It's what they are supposed to do.

As for corporations, I recognise that our financial systems are a relatively efficient means for production to meet the needs and wants of consumers, and that corporations serve a valuable role in civilization. However, I think their power is too unchecked, and that that ought to be addressed by more legal restrictions being applied to corporations... Or perhaps by the existing ones being enforced more stringently.

A reasonable opinion, although I don't entirely agree.

One must always remember that the goal of a corporation is first and foremost to maximise profits, whatever the extraneous costs.

as it should be.

[Hauldren Collider]

Another point with respect to greed and the crisis, if it is so obvious to you that they pursued policies out of greed that have resulted in them and everyone else being worse off, why wasn't it so obvious to them? Would you say you would have done a better job of managing these banks better than the people who do? How come you don't get paid a 6-figure salary to run them, then? I'm of the opinion that companies generally do a relatively good job of picking CEOs (obviously there are exceptions, some extremely notable ones in fact), and I am not convinced of what Obama's rhetoric would have you believe, which is that they are all incompetent hacks.

[ricketyclik]

Because that's exactly the problem with corporations. They act within a narrow paradigm of whatever's best for them within the current accounting period. Their bonus structures reflect that, including those for their CEO's*. An unregulated market always goes for the local maxima, with no one within the private sector given responsibility for where the whole ship is going.

That's where government comes in. Someone has to take responsibility for the overall direction of things, in this case financial markets. They do so by way of regulation. Which takes me back to my original point - most countries didn't allow their financial markets enough free reign to get in to as deep **** as the US did.

* I'm studying some stuff on happiness at uni at the moment in the context of "Promoting positive learning environments", and most of the gurus are saying that altruism is the ultimate path to robust happiness. The same body of research says that 70% of CEO's exhibit sociopathic personality traits. Based on my fairly limited dealings with CEO's I'm surprised it's that low.

[Kuciwalker]

You are completely missing the point, HC.

ricketyclick is hypothesizing that the reason Canadian banks suffered less from the GHC is due to two reasons: they operated under a different regulatory environment, and they had a different business ethic (were less "greedy", colloquially). These differences resulted in them making better decisions.

There is not an inherent contradiction in complaining about the "greed" of corporations, since it is possible for the cultural and regulatory framework under which they operate to affect their behavior for good or ill.

[Hauldren Collider]

[action=Hauldren Collider]fails another reading comprehension test[/action]

That's a reasonable point.

[ricketyclik]

You are completely missing the point, HC.

ricketyclick is hypothesizing that the reason Canadian banks suffered less from the GHC is due to two reasons: they operated under a different regulatory environment, and they had a different business ethic (were less "greedy", colloquially). These differences resulted in them making better decisions.

Sort of. What I'm really saying is that the US, with its extreme ideological stance of "the market knows best" allowed itself to get into a much worse state than Canada, and most other countries for that matter.

[Kuciwalker]

Just be quiet and let me explain your argument in the most favorable possible light.

[ricketyclik]

:zip:

[KrazyHorse]

I have no idea what any of this has to do with screwing investors.

[ricketyclik]

Sore point KH? Sub-prime crisis ring any bells?

I have no recollection of those events.

Do you here people rehearsing as you walk the halls?

[Kuciwalker]

I have no idea what any of this has to do with screwing investors.

Me neither, I only started vaguely paying attention around HC's post.

[KrazyHorse]

Sore point KH? Sub-prime crisis ring any bells?

I have no recollection of those events.

Do you here people rehearsing as you walk the halls?

You're an idiot

[Drake Tungsten]

What the **** is going on in this thread? Why is some poster I've never heard of imagining that I was making a point beyond calling American political leaders "retards" and refuting that imaginary point with anti-corporate idiocy?