[serious] OTF Moderation input

[Drake Tungsten]

I thought about getting Civ 4, but I'd have to buy a copy of XP to play BtS. Screw that...

[MOBIUS]

Vista basically ****ed it...

I suppose I could buy some extra memory for my old desktop.

[Asher]

I play Civ4 fine in Vista, for what it's worth.

[Drake Tungsten]

I'm not buying Vista, either.

[DaShi]

Removing personal attacks would rob more than half the posters here of their debating tools.

[MOBIUS]

**** you Dashi!

[Drake Tungsten]

Removing personal attacks would rob more than half the posters here of their debating tools.

True. Removing personal attacks would make things even easier...

[Lancer]

So, we've new mods and owners around here.
No changes have been made to rules and moderation attitude, etc.

We'd like it to receive some input from you guys about the following issues:

1. What is the purpose of the OTF forum

A place to go when I wake up in the morning to see what my friends have been up to and check in once in a while and chat while I'm civvin.

2. How should we deal with personal attacks, flames, etc.

Warning then ban. Depends on the attack tho. Some are pure jest, some are childish and endlessly repeated. Try to tell the difference but nobody is perfect.

3. How should we deal with thread jacking
I wouldn't bother....much. Depends on the seriousness of the thread and the wishes of the thread starter. These should be stated to the offender. 'The thread starter would like you to stop threadjacking this thread'. Problems? Warning, ban

4. How should we deal with user-spam (not commercial spam)
Anything that causes you allot of work to clean up I'd just ban em for 2 weeks, no warning. If it doesn't disturb the forum forget about it. You might get people complaining to you just to get you involved and worked up like yesterday. Know your people, but that's really the job of your mods. Until then just judge the problem and let allot of stuff go.

5. Is there anything in these forums you miss? What kinda debates / topics aren't possible here but would be good for the OTF, what can we do to bring them here?

It used to be busy here before the OT was split up so that threads won't sink. First it was Stories and Diplomacy, this forum used to be called Stories & Diplomacy/Off Topic. There was a lively bunch telling long stories threads and everyone would jump in and add a line or two. So that got split, the stories of course died, and those people left and the subforum closed. So then they split such stuff as the History, Tech and Sports and History died and the others are choking. The tech and sports forums need to be deleted.

All these forums being created caused a vacuum in the OT. We weren't allowed to discuss such stuff anymore and if we did the threads got sent to their respective oblivion, so all that remained is to spam. Robert, here you have a forum that has been trained by the previous regime to spam. Undo these policies and pray because there isn't much left and thats why you now own the site.

6. Are there reasons for you to post or not post in this forum

I now belong to another site after your recent thread closings. Btw, close the 'closed threads' forum. There is relative peace and freedom there. One of the threads of mine in the closed threads forum was a test for you. Started it in both forums, there its still active. Don't close threads unless you have to. They represent wit, the copulation of ideas. Close them, not very nice at all. People don't like it, they leave.

7. Do you like the idea of a 'closed threads' forum, or do you prefer to keep closed threads in the forum, or do you prefer them to be deleted completely?

Delete it...quick. Before anyone sees.

8. What can in general be done to make the OTF a better place

Consistant moderation. Respectful moderation. Both would be an improvement over what came before. DQ was a great guy though not someone who could reign in his mods. That is your job Robert, moderate your mods.

9. What should remain to keep the OTF a good place?

Freedom.

10. Anything else?
Be up front, your new competition is. Do things 'behind the scenes' and this forum is dead. I'd close all the behind the scenes forums and do things right out in the open, we can take it.
Thanks for your input.

You are welcome and thanks for asking. May God bless you in your efforts.

[TCO]

RULE WITH AN IRON FIST YOU dl POOSIE!

[Guynemer]

Also, two more cents:

I honestly don't see much point in separate Sports and Tech Forums. I'd just fold them back into the main OT. And I say this as a frequent visitor and somewhat-less-frequent poster in the Sports Forum.

[Jon Miller]

RULE WITH AN IRON FIST YOU dl POOSIE!

So you have finally given up on branching threads.

JM

[-Jrabbit]

OK, I'll play.

1. What is the purpose of the OTF forum

It has no purpose, no goal other than what everyone has already posted -- to be an online home where the community relaxes in non-CIV mode.

2. How should we deal with personal attacks, flames, etc.

This is what will define the new ownership. We have some volatile combos of personae here. Don't expect them to play nice all the time. One thing, however, that I urge you to consider: Judge people by their actions, not their histories.

The new admin is starting with a (relatively) clean slate. It should be the same for all posters as well.

3. How should we deal with thread jacking

If a poster is serious about the thread, he/she will be involved enough to keep it on the rails. Not a mod/admin issue.

4. How should we deal with user-spam (not commercial spam)

No one cares. The no-post-count idea is interesting.

5. Is there anything in these forums you miss? What kinda debates / topics aren't possible here but would be good for the OTF, what can we do to bring them here?

This place is about fun, relaxation, and learning from the stupid opinions of those with whom you disagree. So we're good, thanks.

6. Are there reasons for you to post or not post in this forum

Nope. It's my default place to go between bouts of RL. I like to see it active.

7. Do you like the idea of a 'closed threads' forum, or do you prefer to keep closed threads in the forum, or do you prefer them to be deleted completely?

I strongly support the idea of a "closed threads" forum. This assumes that ALL closed/deleted threads (and yes, posts) go there. If there was a commitment to total transparency of moderation, this administration would quickly gain the confidence of the OTF community.

8. What can in general be done to make the OTF a better place

Like I said, we're good as-is. But hmm...

This is weird and out of the blue, but I'd like to see organized daughter window links/embeddings of various web comics. This could become a source of discussion, and would save me from having to remember what days to cruise which sites. The denizens here could construct a pick hits list of targeted sites. (I like Basic Instructions and xkcd, for example.)

9. What should remain to keep the OTF a good place?

The Sports sub-forum.

10. Anything else?

1. Don't confuse the OTF with "content." The On Topic (Civ etc) areas are your "content." The OTF is more like a neighborhood tavern than anything else. It's a hive of meaningless activity, but activity is the one thing this site needs most.

2. Robert, we've already disagreed pretty strongly over an issue or two (one regarding gameplay, another re moderation style) in the on topic area. I know from that experience (and tracking the game for awhile afterwards) that you possess the (rather unusual) abiility to admit your mistakes. Use that to your advantage. This is a good start.

[-Jrabbit]

Nothing personal, Lancer. But I did literally LOL...

8. What can in general be done to make the OTF a better place

Consistant moderation.

9. What should remain to keep the OTF a good place?

Freedom.

[snipped for punchiness]

[Sirotnikov]

So, we've new mods and owners around here.
1. What is the purpose of the OTF forum

Imran said it best.

2. How should we deal with personal attacks, flames, etc.

Depends on the spirit, severity, and amount.
If you can tell it is in good spirit, or that it was very short lived knee-jerk - leave it alone.

If it is mean spirited, intentional trolling, and very aggressive ("fascist scum" >> "you jerk") then
1. post a warning + PM
2. if it's severe / prolonged / repeating - 12/24/48h ban.
3. if it's a 2-way feud - punish both.
4. if the personal feud disrupts the thread, delete offending posts while trying to keep conversation flow. NEVER EVER do this without explaining what you did.

In general - ALWAYS post explaining moderator action. ALWAYS be consistent. Even if it's silly 12h bans for people to cool off.

In the TOPIC forums - post more warnings regarding aggressive language that can be overlooked in the OT. That's where noobs likely start out.

3. How should we deal with thread jacking

In the OT - only if the thread starter complains. If it's an interesting conversation - split it. If it's intentional badgering - warn + punish. Be careful not to nib conversations that naturally flow from one subject to another. As Drake said, often 'thread jacks' make threads better.

ON TOPIC - This is much more likely to be due to natural conversation flow. If need be - split a 2nd thread. If it's spammy in nature - a warning should do in 99%.

4. How should we deal with user-spam (not commercial spam)

Spammy posts
OT - ONLY IF threat starter complains, or thread is severely disrupted (continuously posting the huge mile long picture). ALWAYS start with a warning, unless it is someone's vendetta to disrupt someone else's thread.

ON TOPIC - one or two friendly spams add to friendly atmosphere. Prolonged spam should call for warning.

Spammy threads
ON TOPIC - leave threads in good fun. move/close threads that are disruptive. Always explain why.

OT - unless they are vile / utterly dumb - Give it a chance to turn into fun discussion. We've had very interesting / amusing discussions rise out of various spammy drunk threads.

If the spam is crap, the thread will die on itself, and it can be locked and moved later.

while I basically agree with

Other than personal insults and porn, I honestly think anything goes. No one is harmed by threadjacking or spam threads or copycat threads, it's all just harmless funning. No harm, no foul.

It is important to moderate some spam. Having 8 copycat threads, 5 of them being unfunny, is disruptive. So is people posting APOLYTON APOLYTON in large font in random discussions.

5. Is there anything in these forums you miss? What kinda debates / topics aren't possible here but would be good for the OTF, what can we do to bring them here?

nothing you can do beyond regular moderation as described in 2,3,4. Paraphrasing Guynemer: curtail personal attacks and keeping everything else as it is now.

Prevent threads on religion / middle east / torture / UAVs / MBTs from reaching high tone personal feuds. These decrease interesting conversation in the current thread, and also prevent such threads from being started in the future.

6. Are there reasons for you to post or not post in this forum

descent to personal feuds is a reason not to post certain threads / new topics.

7. Do you like the idea of a 'closed threads' forum, or do you prefer to keep closed threads in the forum, or do you prefer them to be deleted completely?

If a thread is closed by mod action - you could send it to the closed forum, so people can see what happened. Beats plain deletion, and can be reopened if mod over-reacted.

Also opens up a leeway to a locked porn archive

If a thread is closed due to natural reasons - reaches 500 posts / request - close and let sink.

8. What can in general be done to make the OTF a better place

A bit more moderation, applied consistently - especially to prevent threads collapsing to the usual personal feuds.

9. What should remain to keep the OTF a good place?

Current level of sex talk / babe posts is good. No new censorship.

Btw, the "harsh OT" idea is bad. People always had other forums to vent off (CG and the likes).
Keep it that way. If people have a legal refuge where they can badmouth and insult other people, it's bad.

Thanks for your input.

thanks for your inquiry

I very much agree with all the points Asher makes, regarding moderation as well as regarding generating new content for Apolyton the site, and the On-Topic forums.

[Lancer]

Jrabbit, being the target of an inconsistant mod is not freedom, let me assure you. It's turning tail and running or trolling right back without the tools of moderation he can turn against you and the kiss ups he always has in tow. Its an uphill battle that never ends, or didn't until May 1, but what it is not is freedom.