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Reading frosty-boy's immigration thread....

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  • Reading frosty-boy's immigration thread....

    Let us assume that for some strange reason you believe the government should restrict immigration to your country based on anything other than criminal background. In particular, you've decided that you should aim for a maximum of X immigrants per year to your country.

    I'm willing to accept this premise without argument, for the purposes of this thread.

    Now, assuming that Y > X "qualified" individuals (as above, non-criminals) want to immigrate to your country every year, you're left with the task of figuring out how to sort between these Y to find the X you want.

    How should you best go about this? Well, let's go over some examples of how this is done currently. To start with, for the US (reference is Table 2 in http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/s...pr_fr_2008.pdf

    Most (2/3) legal immigration to the US is via "family sponsored immigrants", i.e. relatives of US citizens

    15% is via employers. It should be noted that the lawyer's fees for an application are on the order of 20K, from what I've heard. Also, except for the most educated/elite immigrants, there is a constant backlog (oversubscription) of applications. For these categories, preference is first com first served.

    The "green card lottery" (diversity program) is ~4%

    Refugees and asylum seekers is 15%

    Now let's look at another country with a relatively high immigration rate: Canada. Canada accepts ~ twice as many immigrants per capita as the US does, but relative to European countries they both accept far more immigrants (especially from developing nations)

    The categories are broadly similar to the above, with some differences I will note:

    Family class: 25%

    Economic Immigrants: 60%. Note that these immigrants DO NOT REQUIRE employee sponsorship as employee-sponsored applicants do in the US. Also, as I understand it, the application process is much simpler and the costs are much lower

    Refugees: 9%



    Now, there are numerous similarities between the two systems, as well as significant differences. First, Canada accepts far fewer immigrants based on familial ties (as a proportion of total immigrants). Conversely, it accepts far more immigrants based on economic "viability" as it were. Immigrants who are accepted due to their employment prospects do not need a specific employee sponsor in Canada, and the transaction costs are far lower. There is also far less luck involved in the process, since there are no hard caps on immigration via this category.

    In either case, it is the relevant government attempting to decide what makes a valuable resident based on legislative requirements. Those of us who think central planning of the economy is a bad idea in general should shudder at this idea. Who would have a better idea of what the gains from immigration would be? That's right, the IMMIGRANT HIMSELF. How do we allow him to transmit this information? As always, via a price signal. There is already a price signal in the US (the cost of application for employee sponsorship) but this is obviously not high enough as there is still rationing (shortages) of immigration slots.

    What is the solution? To my mind it seems obvious that IF we wish to restrict immigration numbers the ideal method is to auction off the immigration slots to those who are qualified (those who aren't likely to commit crimes, for example). Those who were likely to get the highest-paying employment in the US would be willing to pay the most for the right to hold such a job. As well, the amount of revenue so raised would be considerable. I have no doubt that current levels of immigration to the US could be sustained if anybody in the world without a criminal record was allowed to enter, stay and work in the US legally for the sum of, say, 50000$. This would raise 50 billion dollars a year.

    Well, while the case seems straightforward for economic/employer-sponsored immigrants, what of the tow other largest categories?

    Refugees are the easiest to deal with. The federal government will forego some revenue by accepting refugees (who we'll assume to be liquidity constrained, preventing them from buying an immigration slot). This can be viewed simply as aid to individuals whose own countries have abandoned or persecuted them. It is a gift from a rich country to individuals who as a group might well be worse off than any other group in the world.

    Now, to family-based immigration: as with refugees, non-auctioned slots are a giveaway to those who get them. However, in this case, they are also giveaways to these immigrants' American family members. Well, why should these particular Americans be given such gifts? Saying they are often poor doesn't hold water, as the money from these immigrants could have been disbursed to ALL poor Americans rather than being given in kind to a certain specific subset of them.
    12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
    Stadtluft Macht Frei
    Killing it is the new killing it
    Ultima Ratio Regum

  • #2
    too complicated to read
    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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    • #3
      Too drunk too read.
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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      • #4
        Instead of the current idiotic system countries should auction off their immigration slots
        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
        Stadtluft Macht Frei
        Killing it is the new killing it
        Ultima Ratio Regum

        Comment


        • #5
          I see where you're going with this, but illegal immigration, being a very large number, would have an effect on the market you are running here. Quite simply, some may take what they cannot buy.
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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          • #6
            Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
            Instead of the current idiotic system countries should auction off their immigration slots
            That would just lead to an increase in spoiled hong kong gangers at expense of intellectual filipino housewives.
            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

            Comment


            • #7
              Something, something to the effect that you seem to know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
              (\__/)
              (='.'=)
              (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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              • #8
                Also, wasn't there a similar program a few years ago? It didn't have an auction mechanism, but there was a process by which very well-to-do foreigners could become citizens. This is just a hazy memory though, so I may be misremembering.
                I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DanS View Post
                  I see where you're going with this, but illegal immigration, being a very large number, would have an effect on the market you are running here. Quite simply, some may take what they cannot buy.
                  As with illegal immigration currently, illegal immigrants would face significant difficulties when attempting to gain employment in any but the lowest-paying professions.
                  12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                  Stadtluft Macht Frei
                  Killing it is the new killing it
                  Ultima Ratio Regum

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DanS View Post
                    Also, wasn't there a similar program a few years ago? It didn't have an auction mechanism, but there was a process by which well-to-do foreigners could become citizens. This is just a hazy memory though, so I may be misremembering.
                    There is still a visa category in the US for people who wish to start a new business with an investment > 1million$ which will employ >10 Americans.

                    However, there is no price paid directly to the US government under this visa category. Also, while the people who take advantage of this would likely take advantage of an auctioned visa system as well, there are a large number of people who would be willing to buy a visa but who do not have the liquidity to dump a million dollars into an investment.
                    12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                    Stadtluft Macht Frei
                    Killing it is the new killing it
                    Ultima Ratio Regum

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by notyoueither View Post
                      Something, something to the effect that you seem to know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.
                      I know that the chance for a better life is too important to be subject to the capricious whims of detailed governmental interference.

                      12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                      Stadtluft Macht Frei
                      Killing it is the new killing it
                      Ultima Ratio Regum

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In Canada it is/was $100K, and you could invest in an existing company.

                        The message was, bring cash and welcome.

                        I do not know if that programme is still going.
                        (\__/)
                        (='.'=)
                        (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

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                        • #13
                          By the way, I think that 2/3rds of immigration re family, it's mostly a system whereby illegals can become legal by being "reunited" with their kids who were born in the US and therefore have US citizenship. Get one person in the door and just continue with the string...

                          KH: Yeh, that's the program I was thinking of.
                          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
                            I know that the chance for a better life is too important to be subject to the capricious whims of detailed governmental interference.

                            Cash is only one of the possible measures of what is better.
                            (\__/)
                            (='.'=)
                            (")_(") This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your signature to help him gain world domination.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              By the way, I think that 2/3rds of immigration re family, it's mostly a system whereby illegals can become legal by being "reunited" with their kids who were born in the US and therefore have US citizenship.


                              It's not "mainly" that. But that is definitely a significant portion of it. The subcategories are detailed in the link I gave. This type of "reunification" can account for at most 10% of total immigration (1/6 of family-based sponsorships).
                              12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                              Stadtluft Macht Frei
                              Killing it is the new killing it
                              Ultima Ratio Regum

                              Comment

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