F-22 will see no more orders, VH-71 cancelled

[Asher]

Right Sherlock, Su-47 and F-22 are twin brothers.

Whoever did those overhead sketches has clearly never seen an F-22 before in their lives.

[Q Classic]

Yeah, I heard about that... I'm not so sure I'm sold on the F-15SEs. Indeed, the only reason Korea's looking overseas again for this is because they crunched the numbers and realized that while they had the technology to build their own stealth fighter, more or less, they didn't have the market for it to make the cost actually affordable.

[Serb]

A-10s are ****ing awesome. Airborne tanks.

You mean flying coffins?

[Q Classic]

You mean flying coffins?

I'd rather be in an A-10 and shooting things than be outside and being shot at by one.

[KrazyHorse]

Yeah, I heard about that... I'm not so sure I'm sold on the F-15SEs. Indeed, the only reason Korea's looking overseas again for this is because they crunched the numbers and realized that while they had the technology to build their own stealth fighter, more or less, they didn't have the market for it to make the cost actually affordable.

That's actually pretty obvious. The economies of scale in these things are HUGE. And for countries which are not and never will be rivals of the US (Western Bloc outside? Europe) it just makes more sense to buy their stuff (even if it's castrated somewhat. The development costs are sunk, the per-unit costs much lower.

[Serb]

I'd rather be in an A-10 and shooting things than be outside and being shot at by one.

A-10 is so 20th century.
Welcome to the future

[Grandpa Troll]

A-10 is so 20th century.
Welcome to the future

So Wiki is an authentic source to trust Serb?

Just asking..............

[GePap]

Bull****. We write off our debt and the dollar sinks

Care to explain the reasoning behind that?

Because the worth of anything is based on perception. IF the US writes off 25% of its international debt obligations, I fail to see why international creditors, except our closests buddies, would ever trust the US again at the same level. And as I said, I doubt a single war over Taiwan would end the shift in global economic power Eastward, so once China continues its slide upward, why the **** should they buy any more US bonds if we reneged on 2 Trillion worth already?

[KrazyHorse]

a) If the US writes off the debt held by an aggressor as war reparations it is significantly different than writing off the debt held by a country which is not militarily aggressive, or by individuals.

b) What does the loss in trust in US Treasuries have to do with a decline in value of the dollar?

[Whoha]

Assuming we don't eliminate non-discretionary spending the only way to pay for it would be to go back to debt monetization at that point since the Chinese would most likely not buy our debt.

China is food self-sufficient. As for oil, such a war would play havoc with oil markets, though they could probably get a lot of their needs from the Russians in a pinch.

Does the pipeline capacity from Russia exist to replace the oil that they import?

[KrazyHorse]

Assuming we don't eliminate non-discretionary spending the only way to pay for it would be to go back to debt monetization at that point since the Chinese would most likely not buy our debt.

So the US has to accept a slightly higher interest rate on its debt?

Come on now. Losing China as a creditor would NOT force the US into debt monetization. Don't be ridiculous.

[GePap]

a) If the US writes off the debt held by an aggressor as war reparations it is significantly different than writing off the debt held by a country which is not militarily aggressive, or by individuals.

"war reparations"? Oh, yeah, you get those from a limited war.. I find it hillarious that you think a conflict over Taiwain would lead to the kins of ending where one signs over war reparations....

b) What does the loss in trust in US Treasuries have to do with a decline in value of the dollar?

IF foreign investors are less sanguine about buying US debt, the Treasury would have to finance operations by instead printing more money, no?

[KrazyHorse]

"war reparations"? Oh, yeah, you get those from a limited war.. I find it hillarious that you think a conflict over Taiwain would lead to the kins of ending where one signs over war reparations....

A conflict over Taiwan would involve at least 3 carriers and HUNDREDS of airplanes, along with probably tens to hundreds of billions of dollars in damage. Are you seriously retarded? The war in Iraq has cost close to a trillion dollars, and most of it has been low-level conflict. And this doesn't even mention the damage to civilians and the disruption in world trade.

What the **** do you think this would be, Grenada?



And once the conflict started it wouldn't stop until the US felt it had inflicted sufficient damage to China to hand them a humble they wouldn't forget. Canceling US debt held by China would just be the start of it (some of this debt cancellation would likely actually be a transfer of these assets to Taiwanese hands as reparation to them).

There is no such thing as a limited war where China seriously attempts to invade Taiwan. This would involve a large part of the USN and USAF, which are both trillion dollar entities in their own right.

IF foreign investors are less sanguine about buying US debt, the Treasury would have to finance operations by instead printing more money, no?

a) Way to crib off of Whoha
b) The thought that the US would monetize debt seriously and ignore the inflationary effects is straight out of some gold nut's handbook. Wake up. This is the 21st century, and that's a banana republic solution

[GePap]

"war reparations"? Oh, yeah, you get those from a limited war.. I find it hillarious that you think a conflict over Taiwain would lead to the kins of ending where one signs over war reparations....

A conflict over Taiwan would involve at least 3 carriers and HUNDREDS of airplanes, along with probably tens to hundreds of billions of dollars in damage. Are you seriously retarded? The war in Iraq has cost close to a trillion dollars, and most of it has been low-level conflict. And this doesn't even mention the damage to civilians and the disruption in world trade.

What the **** do you think this would be, Grenada?

I am well aware of the cost - clearly I must be more aware than you because unlike you I seem to realize that given how immensely costly it could get, the US at least would probably do everything it could to limit the scope and spread of such a war.

And once the conflict started it wouldn't stop until the US felt it had inflicted sufficient damage to China to hand them a humble they wouldn't forget. Canceling US debt held by China would just be the start of it (some of this debt cancellation would likely actually be a transfer of these assets to Taiwanese hands as reparation to them).

This is where you are wrong. No, given the immense cost you mentioned above, the US would seek a war in which the point was for China to back off its campaign as too costly at that point. The idea that we would seek to "humble" China is a load of bull****.

There is no such thing as a limited war where China seriously attempts to invade Taiwan. This would involve a large part of the USN and USAF, which are both trillion dollar entities in their own right.

Really, so then why wouldn't the Chinese, knowing there is no such thing as a limited war with them seeking to take Taiwan, not simply decapitate our forces in the east and those of Taiwain by using force to destroy Taiwans military on the ground and our forward forces in the east, as well as any support assets (such as Space assets) in one swift wuick motion, using ANY weapons at their disposal, something you said was unlikely?

Get your story straight, either this is a limited war where the gloves don't come off all the way, or it is one in which the gloves come off.

[Lonestar]

A-10 is so 20th century.
Welcome to the future

If we're talking bomb-trucks than the F-16 is just as good, from a cost-benefit POV. If we're talking CAS, which the Su-34 is certainly not than the A-10 is superior in that role.


Hey, I forget, how many airplanes did those gaggle of idiots shoot down in Georgia? Russia can't even fight a tiny Caucasus nation without losing heavy bombers and the so-called equal of the A-10, the Su-25.