Petition for Intellectual Honesty on Apolyton

[Theben]

Just shut down the site.

[ZEE]

If my hero MarkG were here, HE would know what to do!

[Agathon]

This thread is stupid. Ben is a Christian. Christianity, along with many other religions, unambiguously holds that homosexuality is a violation of the natural order (as is adultery and polygamy, etc.). The religion itself does not do this out of hatred of homosexuals, but because of its view about the place of human beings in the universe. Yes, there are Christian bigots, but there are bigots everywhere.

In fact, Christianity is quite explicit that you must not hate homosexuals, because it is impermissible to hate anyone. You're supposed to forgive everyone their sins, and never allow your hatred for a sin to transmute into hatred for the person that commits it. Even I know that, and I'm a dyed in the wool heathen.

As for logic, most people on the site have no real idea of what that means. For them it seems to refer to "beliefs that support my prejudices in some vague and unspecifiable way" or they confuse "logical" with "rational", when these terms mean different things, or they simply think that it means "whatever I don't agree with".

And the idea of Asher, a serially dishonest sociopath, whose idea of argument is to repeat in an endless loop a statement that has been questioned, asking for intellectual honesty on the site has to be the worst attempt at a troll in some time.

rah is right. If you don't like what someone posts, then argue with them, or put them on ignore. Anything else is just pathetic whining. Either that, or don't post on the site. I've taken numerous breaks when I've got fed up of the lack of moderation and falling standards of discussion, but unlike some people, I don't feel the need to publicly cry like a ***** about it.

Man up.

[Q Classic]

Hey, Aggie.

Apple sucks.

[Jon Miller]

I, unlike some, is fine with Ben believing how he does.

My issue with him is for other things.

JM

[Q Classic]

It's possible to disagree without being disagreeable. Ben cannot achieve that.

[Berzerker]

What are you going to clear up? You're opinions are offensive because they are authoritarian in nature.

And you support a ban on pot?

har har har

[Berzerker]

and good post Aggie

I've read and debated Ben enough to know he aint a liar

as for being offensive, he's one of the most polite people here. That tells me he's not trying to be offensive, but no one's perfect. Okay? Shall we all start apologizing now?

I'm sorry for offending people

I saved that for last just in case I offended someone

[Traianvs]

AC, my problem with Ben Kenobi is not that I strongly disagree with him on certain issues. For example, Slowwy and I have strong disagreements about the history of the American Civil War and even contemporary race issues but I still fiind him to be likeable on here.

Asher and others have already tried explaining what our source of our problems with BK is so I won't reiterate all of that.

He's likeable to you because you're an American. To foreigners he blathers some bat**** crazy drivel, for example that the French are surrender monkeys or somesuch. Most of the time he gets personal when he disagrees with you, which is nearly always if you don't like guns, Texas and George Bush.

[Agathon]

It's possible to disagree without being disagreeable. Ben cannot achieve that.

He is not entirely to blame for that. There's a ridiculous tendency that's developed on this site in the last few years to dogpile on people with minority opinions.

For example, Oerdin can seldom make a post without the usual gang of dicks having a go at him, not because they disagree with what he said, but because they want to have a go at him.

I don't agree with much of what Ben says, but what you mean by "disagreeable" is often him sticking up for his own opinions in an environment where he holds a minority view (and one that is very difficult to defend), and the Apolyton gay mafia dogpile him for it. Given that fact, I'm surprised he isn't ruder in response.

If there's anything going on here, it seems that it's the inability of some people not to take criticism of homosexual behaviour personally. Ben is quite capable of taking criticism of religious behaviour without necessarily taking it personally, as I know from my own experience arguing with him.

After all, it's an internet gaming site, not the Supreme Court, so our political opinions don't really matter other than for personal amusement.

[Agathon]

as for being offensive, he's one of the most polite people here.

Yeah, this is what I can't understand. The man is a saint compared to most of us.

[-Jrabbit]

A very unfortunate choice of nouns.

[Agathon]

He's likeable to you because you're an American. To foreigners he blathers some bat**** crazy drivel, for example that the French are surrender monkeys or somesuch. Most of the time he gets personal when he disagrees with you, which is nearly always if you don't like guns, Texas and George Bush.

Maybe you should look in the mirror. I disagree with him about almost everything, and I constantly needle him about his desire to commit unchristian acts with Mariah Carey, but he's always been straight with me.

And what are you complaining about. My national stereotype involves bestiality, so you have no sympathy from me.

[Jon Miller]

My issue with Ben is not his positions, or his politeness. Which I know might be others problems with him. It is that he isn't honest when replying to others in the threads, and isn't well reasoned (you can hold (Some of) his positions and be well reasoned), and isn't very understanding of others.

JM

[notyoueither]

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?t=183656