Iranians in Space

[Dr Strangelove]

And everyone arguing for the development of missile defense prior to Iran devolping the missiles it defends against have been proved correct. Suck it Russia.

Because Poland is number one on Iran's list of countries to nuke.

Patriot 3 has a range of less than 100 miles and a ceiling of less than 90,000 feet. Missile batteries near Cracow provide protection for south-west Poland, the Czech Republic and parts of what used to be East Germany.

[BeBMan]

How would iranian nukes ´destabilize the region´ as is often claimed? AFAIK ´destabilizing´ is not quite the appropriate attribute for nuclear weapons.

Many see it as the beginning of a new nuclear arms race, since many other countries in the region will try to get nukes as well, if only to be safe from political blackmail. With ranges of missiles growing (and now they basically reached ICBM dimensions as others posted) this could suck more and more states in. We could get a world full of nuclear armed countries, which would be highly unstable.

The current regime with only some countries having nukes is not really "fair", but it has been relatively safe. Now this "relative safety" included several situations where an all out nuke war was possible (esp. during the Cuban Missile crisis). Imagine this with 20, 30 or 50 states possessing nukes, some of them unstable as hell due to domestic reasons already.

[Patroklos]

Patriot 3 has a range of less than 100 miles and a ceiling of less than 90,000 feet. Missile batteries near Cracow provide protection for south-west Poland, the Czech Republic and parts of what used to be East Germany.

Thats nice, but the Patriot III, THAAD, and MEADS are all terminal phase interceptors. The missiles causing all that faux rage on the part of Russsia are the ground based midcourse (GMD) interceptors which have the range to defend most of Europe from long range ballistic missiles via exoatmospheric intercept.

[MOBIUS]

Iran launches a satellite and there's **** all Israel can do about it...

[Tattila the Hun]

If I could draw worth ****, I'd draw a political cartoon, with a stereotypical US general, with craploads of missiles and bombs and nukes looming behind him, saying "We are very concerned..." to a bloke bearing striking similarity to Ahmajediwhatshisname, sending up a firework. Hyperbole, but that's how it is.

[DanS]

What are the compartive payloads of satelites and nukes?

The energy required to complete these missions is comparable. The R7 originally was designed as an ICBM, but still forms the backbone of the USSR/Russia space program. Likewise, the Atlas program for the US (although it performs a much lesser role for the US space program).

There are differences in solid-fuelled rockets versus liquid-fuelled rockets that are interesting to discuss, but really aren't important as far as this discussion is concerned.

[snoopy369]

Meh, stop whining about Iran trying to build a space program, or whatever. It's really tiresome. If they're building ballistic missiles and firing them at people, we stop them when that becomes apparent (and you can't have a missile program without actually firing some missiles, so it will become quite apparent); if they are peacefully trying to develop a space program, let them join the first world and do so.

Dude, they're exactly the same thing.

Firing a rocket into space is the same thing as firing an ICBM at a country. Really.

So, when are the US, Russia, France, and China going to be brought before the world court for war crimes?

[Patroklos]

Are any of those a theocracy centered around a doomsday cult?

[Winston]

Are any of those a theocracy centered around a doomsday cult?

No, but one recently turned into a theocracy centered around a personality cult.

[Zkribbler]

well if you were a member of axis of evil - you'd want nukes too after Iraq )

as for Iranians in space to third world development... the funniest part is how everyone here is freaked out by Iranians putting sattelites into orbit, but are not freaked out by Pakistanis having nukes (& capability to deliver) for 10 years or so...

mass media power

I freaked. Especially when Pakistan and India were eyeball to eyeball a few years back. IMHO, that was the closest the world has been to nuclear war since Nagasaki. Thank god, they both had the good sense to back off.

[snoopy369]

+1

How did you not get that Snoopy? Why do you think Sputnik was a big deal?

I don't give a rat's *** as to whether Iran has the capability to send an ICBM into space. We have absolutely no right to deny Iran the ability to do something we are able and willing to do. (For the record, I'm against forcible nuclear nonproliferation as well, unless/until we are willing to fully disarm.) Furthermore, I believe that denying them the ability to launch satellites into space will simply further distance them from the west, and strengthen the arguments of the Iranian anti-West contingent, who argue that (among other things) we are trying to make them a third world country. This is simply evidence that they're right.

How to get Iran to be a reasonable, responsible world power:
1. Stop ordering them around like children
2. Hold them to the same standards as everyone else
3. Show them our nuclear weapons, and make sure they get that if they start attacking other people, they'll see our nuclear weapons up close. [Stick]
4. Show them our progress and wealth, and make sure they know that if they continue behaving like a first world nation, they can have it too. And let them - stand by our word, and if they end up more successful than we, so be it; may the better man/nation win.. [Carrot]

[Kuciwalker]

Firing a rocket into space is the same thing as firing an ICBM at a country. Really.

Yes.

So, when are the US, Russia, France, and China going to be brought before the world court for war crimes?

What?

[Kuciwalker]

I don't give a rat's *** as to whether Iran has the capability to send an ICBM into space. We have absolutely no right to deny Iran the ability to do something we are able and willing to do.

Of course we do; we have the power and desire to do so. There's no logical reason to assign moral rights to states.

[Kuciwalker]

I don't give a rat's *** as to whether Iran has the capability to send an ICBM into space.

This is your problem. The rest of us actually care whether Iran can bombard us with missiles, esp. ones that could carry the nuclear weapons they want.

[snoopy369]

Are any of those a theocracy centered around a doomsday cult?

Somehow I think categorizing Iran as a theocracy centered around a doomsday cult misses certain important details, like 'truth' and 'accuracy'.

The West cannot simply decide that its opinion of how a state should be run - democracy not theocracy, christian not muslim, etc. - is The Way. I've no problem with minimum standards such as "don't kill people arbitrarily", but even that has to be defined carefully; at what point will the EU start considering the US a rogue state because of the death penalty, after all.

The best way to get Iran to behave like a mature state is to treat them that way - just like the best way to get a 16 year old to act like an adult is to treat them that way. Ozzy, you around?