Ron Paul: Stimulus Packages Will Turn Recession Into A Depression

[Docfeelgood]

http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-01-27/ro...-free-markets/

[Darius871]

http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-01-27/ro...-free-markets/

...and?

[Dinner]

Who cares what Ron Paul thinks?

[DanS]

He's right that there's no such thing as a free lunch. But even a trillion dollars isn't worth what it used to be worth. It is not of the magnitude that would push us into depression. Rather, it will decrease economic growth over the next decade or two as we pay off the trillion.

[GePap]

Now people like DanS talk about being proflegate in government spending (while supporting little expenditures like the Iraq War)...cause we all know that those huge Bush tax cuts led us into a golden age of long lasting prosperity.....

I mean, the last thing we should be doing is investing in our future. That is just CRAZY!


The biggest problem with the current stimulus package is that far too much of it continues to be tax cuts, as opposed to direct spending.

[Lorizael]

This just in: Libertarian thinks government interference is bad.

Next up: Pope ****s in woods.

[Arrian]

Seriously. Of course Ron Paul hates the idea of a fiscal stimulus.

Setting aside beliefs (though I don't doubt Paul really believes this), it's probably a good idea for Republicans to oppose the stimulus. If it works (or is perceived to work), it's Obama's plan anyway. Them supporting it gains them what? If it doesn't work (or is perceived to not work) they gain credibility with the public. Nate Silver (and others) have been talking about this lately... if you're a congressional Republican, why would you support the stimulus? The only reason I can come up with is that you really believe it is best for the country, and that's your primary motivation, political consequences be damned. The odds of finding that sort of belief (that fiscal stimulus will help) in a Republican in Congress, especially given the ideological purging that has been going on, is rather unlikely.

-Arrian

[Theben]

Then the dems get political capital by saying the repubs weren't onboard, that they would rather be partisan than fix our country. That's a tarry brush to be painted with in this climate.

[Arrian]

I guess. But based on the election results, the Republicans have nowhere to go but up. So why not gamble?

-Arrian

[OzzyKP]

The quote from the Republican I saw on MSNBC today seemed fairly reasonable. He said that like 70% of jobs in the country come from small business, yet only 3% of the stimulus package concerns small business. He also said that he felt infrastructure was a good idea, but only 3% of the package actually goes to infrastructure projects. Furthermore he said that 2/3rds of the package won't be spent until after 2010.

Now I haven't looked at the 650 page bill to know if this is true or not, but if so then there doesn't seem to be anything partisan or ideological about the opposition (Ron Paul excluded of course) it is just trying to make the stimulus accomplish what it is meant to accomplish. Effective government isn't a partisan thing, it is in everyone's best interest.

Also quoting that same Congressman (whose name I unfortunately have forgotten) he seemed pretty encouraged about his dealings with President Obama, and said Obama was interested in incorporating GOP suggestions into the plan and was very cooperative. He seemed fairly pro-Obama. He didn't have any kind words for Pelosi...

[Arrian]

Well, I do think ideology is heavily involved. Republicans generally do not believe government is useful when it comes to this sort of thing. Therefore, they're going to do their damndest to poke holes in the plan (and try to sound reasonable doing it). From their PoV, they're doing a good thing if they can stop it.

I agree that much of the money not being spent until 2010 is a problem. The solution, IMO, is not to reject the idea of a stimulus, but rather to find a way to spend the money in 2009... which likely involves FDRish programs that Republicans will HATE. So to me the problem with the "shovel ready" criticism is that it's not really honest. If there WERE enough shovel ready projects, they'd be opposing the stimulus on other grounds.

-Arrian

[OzzyKP]

It is involved with some/many of them, surely. But that doesn't mean that they don't have valid problems with the package on more practical grounds. Part of this "new era" of Obama-run government should be cutting through the partisan crap on both sides and finding what works best. If someone on the other side has suggestions to make the bill work better, they should be included instead of dismissed as attempts to kill the bill.

[MrFun]

Isn't Ron Paul just another retarded libertarian?

[Arrian]

It is involved with some/many of them, surely. But that doesn't mean that they don't have valid problems with the package on more practical grounds. Part of this "new era" of Obama-run government should be cutting through the partisan crap on both sides and finding what works best. If someone on the other side has suggestions to make the bill work better, they should be included instead of dismissed as attempts to kill the bill.

Sure, Ozzy. Provided the suggestions in question really make the bill better. Obama sure seems to be willing to listen.

Trouble is, from my viewpoint, the mantra of the Republicans has been that government spending is, by its nature, a poor policy choice... and the answer is to instead do tax cuts. Tax cuts, according to the GOP, are the solution to all of our problems. Always. It reminds me of the glorious Homer Simpson line "...the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems." Just cut taxes, and everything will be great (especially if you cut taxes on the richest people, 'cause you know, they will hire some more plebs).

Obama & Co. have put together a mixed package of spending + tax cuts. That, to me, indicates they are very willing to include ideas from the Right. The trouble is that the Right is, for the most part, ideologically opposed to the basic idea behind the stimulus bill. It's not realistic to expect that they will have suggestions to improve the bill. They will likely have suggestions to kill or weaken it (probably because they honestly think the bill is a bad idea).

-Arrian

[OzzyKP]

So basically because "The Right" has ideological objections to government spending/pork and favors tax cuts than any legitimate suggestions for improvement of a bill by any Republican should be thrown out the window since they obviously just have an axe to grind. Sounds like lawmakers are either with you or against you.