Latest Middle East Thread

[Barnabas]

Israel is a first world country with great military forces, and Gaza is a shanty town ruled by a criminal organization.

Was it really necessary to use the air force? To bomb Gaza?

The whole thing seemed ridiculous and criminal to me. .

Man up and break into Gaza with death squads and elite forces to kill all the people shooting rockets towards Israel, but don't bomb the city.

[SlowwHand]

Israel likely decided their own potential lose of life was a consideration.
You bomb where they are, unfortunately. I've asked many times, who is really to blame?

[notyoueither]

Israel is a first world country with great military forces, and Gaza is a shanty town ruled by a criminal organization.

Was it really necessary to use the air force? To bomb Gaza?

The whole thing seemed ridiculous and criminal to me. .

Man up and break into Gaza with death squads and elite forces to kill all the people shooting rockets towards Israel, but don't bomb the city.

Air power would likely lead to far fewer civilian casualties than ground forces for many targets.

You don't have to read Siro's posts to find out that artillery and other ordinance used in support of infantry are far less precise weapons with far less considered target selection that air power can be.

[Felch]

Israel is a first world country with great military forces, and Gaza is a shanty town ruled by a criminal organization.

Was it really necessary to use the air force? To bomb Gaza?

In modern warfare, what separates a first world power from a militia is usually air power.

Infantry equipment isn't very expensive. Even retailing in the U.S., a good rifle is about $1000, optics can double that. Kevlar is another $1000. Incidental gear and ammunition would bring that to about $2500 to $4000, depending on what you think you need.

Assuming that lax regulation brings the prices down, and also assume that AKs don't cost the same as a brand new DPMS, you're going to spend a lot less than $4000 to equip a Hamas fighter to a pretty good spec. Israel might spend $10,000 in kits for its soldiers, but you quickly run into diminishing returns there.

Air power (along with armor and artillery) is expensive, and it's brutally effective. It's what defines a great military power.

[Sirotnikov]

[Sirotnikov]

just to be clear:

decimate - 4 dictionary results
dec⋅i⋅mate
   /ˈdɛsəˌmeɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [des-uh-meyt] Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object), -mat⋅ed, -mat⋅ing.
1. to destroy a great number or proportion of: The population was decimated by a plague.
2. to select by lot and kill every tenth person of.

[fed1943]

While the contrary opinion is logic, I think Barnabas is right.
You end the terrorist threat, not when you kill the last terrorist as others will follow,
but when we make their own people to stop support them.
Air force can't do that, but ground forces can.
Best regards,

[BeBMan]

Technologic advantages like air power are the first choice for nations that can deploy them against the "have-nots", esp. for the "West", because these nations usually can't afford to take large losses in life of own troops over a longer period (while for example groups like Hamas can, hence they're sending people around as walking bombs). If not for the manpower loss esp. democratic societies may soon feel a political impact at home.

Air power (without air power on the opposing side) limits casualties of your own troops and precision strikes could as well limit loss of civilians, but it depends a lot of the circumstances and the nature of the conflict. Using air power to fight an enemy that is using mostly guerilla tactics does highly endanger civilians that are caught in the middle and so we have a high death toll amongst them now. As for who is to blame - it's IMO secondary. Blaming eachother is the standard exercise in the ME since decades, hasn't solved anything, and will not solve anything. They either realize that they have to get their **** together in some ways, or the killing will continue sooner or later (cease fire now or not).

Aside from that I agree that using air power alone doesn't solve the prob with groups like Hamas etc....

[Dr Strangelove]

Air power would likely lead to far fewer civilian casualties than ground forces for many targets.

You don't have to read Siro's posts to find out that artillery and other ordinance used in support of infantry are far less precise weapons with far less considered target selection that air power can be.

In the hands of the right people artillery can be as precise as bombs, artillery rounds can even be laser guided, i.e., the Chapparal system. The typical bomb has much more blast power than the typical artillery round though. A 500 pound bomb has about 200 pounds of explosive in it - that's more explosive than the HE version of a WW2 16 inch naval shell. A 155mm round generally has only 8 to 10 pounds of explosive in it. Anti-artillery radar can locate the position of the gun firing a round within 50 feet. If a surveillance drone were available to monitor that position it could be marked with a laser by the drone. Laser guided ordinance would land within 4 inches of the site. Laser guided ordinance would generally have somewhat less explosive, but certainly enough to destroy a few rocket launchers.

[Sirotnikov]

Chapparal is a limited use AA system. Israel does not use it's chapparal for engaging surface targets, nor would it be any use in providing cover to ground forces in urban combat, or unearthing booby traps and IED's in the scenario in which artillery was used.

[Naked Gents Rut]

Using an expensive laser-guided round to blow up a bunch of crappy rockets is a waste of money. JDAMs are far more cost-effective.

[MOBIUS]

Not to mention wrong. Incorrect. Contrary to accepted usage. Or, as some would say, FAIL.

My use of the word is the correct usage. The whole etymology of the word 'decimate' is literally 'to take a tenth'. If the morons of the world want to mangle its usage through wholesale ignorance, then I suppose at least you expose yourselves as such...

There are tons of far more appropriate words to describe what Siro was trying to get across (wrongly, because it is likely that they have only decimated about 10% of Hamas' rocket stockpiles!): Annihilate, exterminate, destroy, or devastate.

[Kidlicious]

Siro,

I don't respond to your arguments. I will only provide alternative view points. That goes for the rest of the people here clamoring for genocide. You've all gone mad.

[MOBIUS]

In response to Siro's picture...

Last image edited by Ming
Mobius, check out the posting rules. No death, or grossly injured people pics are allowed.

[Kidlicious]

The Israeli's are so evil that we can't show what they are doing to people on this website.