Downloading & Trying Windows 7 Beta Public

[FrostyBoy]

I'm sure some will. Most won't.

FWIW, "virtual keyboards" are banned on MS Surface.

typical.

[Asher]

Typical of MS to be aware of a horrible concept that ruins the user experience?

Surface has USB ports for USB keyboards if an app needs input. Touchscreen keyboards are awful for many reasons, not the least of which is the lack of tactile feedback currently.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Hmmm... I think I need to allocate more RAM to my virtual machine. I have 1 GB dedicated to it... that could be why W7 is running slowly

[snoopy369]

Check how much RAM it's asking for. I allocated 800MB and it didn't actually take nearly that much. The windows 7 virtual pc 2007 setup blog post ( http://blogs.msdn.com/briankel/archi...-2007-sp1.aspx ) mentions as little as 512MB... I don't think my VPC ever asked for more than a few hundred MB, but then again I only ran IE8.

[FrostyBoy]

Typical of MS to be aware of a horrible concept that ruins the user experience?

Surface has USB ports for USB keyboards if an app needs input. Touchscreen keyboards are awful for many reasons, not the least of which is the lack of tactile feedback currently.

Please elaborate. I'm curious how it would ruin the user experience.

The touch "keyboard" on the iphone is almost flawless. Definitely leaps and bounds beyond pressing keys on a mobile.

If I am to design a laptop, I would find a way to remove the keyboard and the mouse. A keyboard that pops into screen when you need it, or via some small onscreen button in the corner that opens the keyboard, similar to the way the iPhone does it would be ideal. I see no problem with it. In fact I can foresee that it will become the norm.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The touch "keyboard" on the iphone is almost flawless. Definitely leaps and bounds beyond pressing keys on a mobile.

Even like on a Blackberry with a full keyboard?

If so, I'd have to say you are literally the first person I've EVER heard say this?

[Asher]

Please elaborate. I'm curious how it would ruin the user experience.

The touch "keyboard" on the iphone is almost flawless. Definitely leaps and bounds beyond pressing keys on a mobile.

It is far from almost flawless. Have you ever chatted with someone on the iPhone or read someone's twitters from the iPhone? It's not good, period. Blackberries are far better.

If I am to design a laptop, I would find a way to remove the keyboard and the mouse. A keyboard that pops into screen when you need it, or via some small onscreen button in the corner that opens the keyboard, similar to the way the iPhone does it would be ideal. I see no problem with it. In fact I can foresee that it will become the norm.

It may very well become the norm on ultra-portable computers, but not on real laptops. You need a keyboard if you want to type, virtual keyboards are incredibly annoying. I know this because I've typed on virtual keyboards on Surface before and I know how awkward and "hacky" it feels.

Surface is not "just a touchscreen device". There's a very specific user experience MS wants to build with Surface (which does not extend to Windows 7 and touch devices). Essentially, if anything needs to be typed in it's not a good fit to be on Surface. If it does need to be typed in, the USB keyboard is to be used.

Surface is largely for social computing, two or more people sit around the device and interact with it. Typing on virtual keyboards does not really fit this paradigm well.

This really is two different issues though: are virtual keyboards as useful as real keyboards, and do they fit with the device's use cases. For Surface, it doesnt' fit with the use case to begin with.

While it is possible to simply make portable screens with virtual keyboards, and they will be made, the question is will these replace tactile keyboards on computers in general. The answer is no, at least not until there is acceptable tactile feedback. You can point to the iPhone as an example of why virtual keyboards are good, but if you actually use the damned thing you can see the problem with making all keyboards virtual. There's a reason Blackberries outsell the iPhone, especially for heavy typers like business users.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Check how much RAM it's asking for. I allocated 800MB and it didn't actually take nearly that much. The windows 7 virtual pc 2007 setup blog post ( http://blogs.msdn.com/briankel/archi...-2007-sp1.aspx ) mentions as little as 512MB... I don't think my VPC ever asked for more than a few hundred MB, but then again I only ran IE8.

Hmm... maybe it isn't the RAM then... but Win7 in VPC is crawling for me.

[Asher]

VPCs tend to crawl when you install it to the same HDD as the host OS.

Also enable hardware virtualization in your BIOS if applicable.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ah, ok.

[FrostyBoy]

It is far from almost flawless. Have you ever chatted with someone on the iPhone or read someone's twitters from the iPhone? It's not good, period. Blackberries are far better.


It may very well become the norm on ultra-portable computers, but not on real laptops. You need a keyboard if you want to type, virtual keyboards are incredibly annoying. I know this because I've typed on virtual keyboards on Surface before and I know how awkward and "hacky" it feels.

Surface is not "just a touchscreen device". There's a very specific user experience MS wants to build with Surface (which does not extend to Windows 7 and touch devices). Essentially, if anything needs to be typed in it's not a good fit to be on Surface. If it does need to be typed in, the USB keyboard is to be used.

Surface is largely for social computing, two or more people sit around the device and interact with it. Typing on virtual keyboards does not really fit this paradigm well.

This really is two different issues though: are virtual keyboards as useful as real keyboards, and do they fit with the device's use cases. For Surface, it doesnt' fit with the use case to begin with.

While it is possible to simply make portable screens with virtual keyboards, and they will be made, the question is will these replace tactile keyboards on computers in general. The answer is no, at least not until there is acceptable tactile feedback. You can point to the iPhone as an example of why virtual keyboards are good, but if you actually use the damned thing you can see the problem with making all keyboards virtual. There's a reason Blackberries outsell the iPhone, especially for heavy typers like business users.

As with everything new (like when first using a mouse), it's just a matter of getting used to it. Of course, the device has a limit on how much use you can get from it. For example, the Xbox controller cannot match the precision of the mouse. Likewise, the keyboard on iPhones or other portable devices cannot match a real keyboard, but we have yet to really see a fully user-friendly virtual keyboard on a touch screen as large as a good sized monitor.

It's really just a matter of design, perhaps flexible monitors is needed to make it ergonomic.

[Asher]

You're missing the point. The blackberry keyboard is far better than the iPhone keyboard, and they take up the same space. What's the difference?

[FrostyBoy]

I've never used a blackberry keyboard so I can't really comment on that.

However, you are also missing the point. The problem now is that speed is hindered because humans only have two hands. We have to constantly shift from keyboard to mouse to use the computer.

It would be better, if all functions were controlled from one area and the Touch Screen provides that answer. My argument is about speed, portability and efficiency.

[Asher]

I've never used a blackberry keyboard so I can't really comment on that.

However, you are also missing the point. The problem now is that speed is hindered because humans only have two hands. We have to constantly shift from keyboard to mouse to use the computer.

It would be better, if all functions were controlled from one area and the Touch Screen provides that answer. My argument is about speed, portability and efficiency.

If your argument was about speed and efficiency, you'd prefer the faster and more efficient keyboard -- the physical keyboard.

The only -- ONLY -- advantage of the touchscreen keyboard is you can "hide" it without taking up any physical space (eg, media can take its place rather than being persistently there).

Physical keyboards are faster and more efficient.

[FrostyBoy]

Agreed - for now. I'm thinking of the very potential future.

I can visualize myself doing some 3D modeling, needing to put in some co-ordinates, I can quickly bring out the relevant console, with only the keys that I need to use shown, punch in the numbers, close the window and continue, all without having to switch to another device to accomplish it - that saves time, this means I can go faster, the faster I go, the more mistakes I can make without getting annoyed, the more I accomplish.