Another Round Begins in The Middle East

[GePap]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov


Egyptian leadership, notable not very pro-Israeli, has clearly stated that Hamas ignored their warnings and that basically they got what they had going.

That is a song that will end very soon, just like at the start of the 2006 war when the Saudis and Egyptians blamed Hezbullah at the beginning.

The longer this goes, and the more Palestinians die, the more that the Egyptians, to pander to their own unhappy street, will have to distance themselves from Israel. Whether they will actually get to the point of praising Hamas is unlikely, but they might go as far as openning their own border for more humanitarian causes beyond letting injured Palestinians go into Egypt for treatment.

[TCO]

Why don't you take the Gaza strip over, evict all the Pals and put them in Jordan? Right now, they are in two separate disconnected peices of land. Like East and West Pakistan. That can't last. Is not stable. plus wouldn't you rather have all that coastline for Israel?

[GePap]

Because any officials ordering such an action would be guilty of crimes against humanity (and would likely force a regional war), and if Israel were to take such an action, even the US might stop giving it diplomatic cover.

[TCO]

Originally posted by GePap
Israel isn;t going to end Palestinian resistance militarily. It has been trying for 40 years and still hasn't done it. It can buy itself relative calm and low casualties for itself (those rockets from Gaza have killed a small number of civilians), but that is all it can get.

As for Gaza, either the Israelis take it back, and assume full responsibility for the civilian population's well being, or actually talk to Hamas and make a deal. This middle ground of trying to starve 1.5 million Palestinians so they turn on Hamas has failed, and was bound to fail.

Get rid of them.

[Unimatrix11]

H: ´I want Lebensraum forrrr my peeple´

T: ´Why dont you take all the russians and put them east of the ural ? I mean an african empire wouldnt be connected to germany proper and that cant last....´

Not trying to insult - just demonstrating what this kind of thought resembles...

[TCO]

Originally posted by Unimatrix11
I know, that the radicals on both sides want the other totally gone, with no exception. But they wouldnt get anywhere with this, if they got utterly isolated by their own people.

There´s still germans, who´d like to try a third time. They are utterly isolated tho and except maybe spraying a concentration camp memorial or jewish cementary, they dont get to do much about it. (Toughest recently was the wounding of a police chief this month, which caused an outrage throughout the republic).

But as long as those who carry out the fight are considered as heros, who keep their side save (and they dont) on both sides, goals along the line of utter destruction of the other side are sociable. It must be made clear and obvious to anyone on either side, that he (or she) who kills one of the other side is also responsible for the apparently ineveitable retaliation and thus harming his (her) side, not protecting it.

The only way violence could end this, is when it´s used not only with the goal but also with the effect of utter destruction of the other side. And i fear that this day may come, and be not too far, if this go on like this. The Israelis cant do this, though - they know all too well, what the word ´genocide´ means. The most radical palestinensians may or may not have such compunctions tho.

EDIT: Where have brave men like Rabin gone? You know, what it would show, if israeli civilians would block their own airfields, when rumors spread out that a strike is imminent? That would give goose-bumps worldwide. Maybe it would make one or the other palstinian mum say to her kid: ´If you go launch rockets on them, i am gonna be so ashamed - you wouldnt be my son anymore.´ If some local isreali government decided to give most of the water to the few israelis and thus deprive many palis of that vital good. If then those benefitting israelis would make a ´water march´ each day with buckets in their hands to the pali-camp, until the unfairness ends. How about that ? Thats brave ! That protects ! That may lead to peace. Naive - i know.

The reason you are all pacifist now is because we crushed you Germans. If you want to go for round three, we salt the earth this go round.

[onodera]

I think the UN should intervene, merge the two states together and forcefully interbreed Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews until they are a single nation with secular Judeochrislam as their religion.

Ha, ha, only serious.

[Unimatrix11]

TCO, personally, i dont think there is a need for germans to try a third time, cause apparently there is others eager to do it for us. Yeah, you got it.

onodera: Actually, i think, in the long term, a federation could be an option. The land problem is a very hard one in this conflict. It might be impossible to find a ´fair´ line of division. So unification may be the only option. Maybe with two chambers of parliament, one for each side, with the right to veto each other. Or something like that. Utopia - i know.

[GePap]

The Israelis and Palestinians remind me of the Centauri and Narn from Babylon 5, two people bound together in recrimination, hate, and fear.

http://washingtonbureau.typepad.com/jerusalem/2008/12/christmas-tales-from-the-holy-land.html

The piece ends with this quote from Bethlehem Governor Salah Tamari: “Israelis are paranoid because of their past, while Palestinians are paranoid because of their present. But we are doomed to live together or blessed to live together, depending on your point of view."

An optimist would expect a positive change soon. Personally, I expect things to get worse. Usually when bad economic times roll around, most people get even more paranoid and fearful, and when afraid, the more common behavior is to lash out, not to look inward and see ones own mistakes.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Unimatrix11

EDIT: A rocket in this case is a sure sign someone is discontent, to say the least, with his situation. Changing the situation, instead of killing that someone, offers the only way to a permanent solution.

Well, changing the situation by killing that someone and making it clear to everyone else that if they become that someone, they'll be killed, too, is another permanent solution.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by GePap

Israel isn;t going to end Palestinian resistance militarily. It has been trying for 40 years and still hasn't done it. It can buy itself relative calm and low casualties for itself (those rockets from Gaza have killed a small number of civilians), but that is all it can get.

There's always the Biblical option. Canaan.

[SlowwHand]

Numbers 34:1-12
Ezekiel 47:13-20

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
just so you get a perspective on who is the bad guy:
The palestinian reports shown in Israel talk of 200 casualties.

The bad guys are the ones doing the killing.

[GePap]

Originally posted by aneeshm


There's always the Biblical option. Canaan.

What would a Hindu nationalist know of the bible?

Stick to your own fundamentalism.

[Naked Gents Rut]

Why don't you take the Gaza strip over, evict all the Pals and put them in Jordan?

Because any officials ordering such an action would be guilty of crimes against humanity (and would likely force a regional war), and if Israel were to take such an action, even the US might stop giving it diplomatic cover.

The United States is already guilty of "crimes against humanity." They're in no position to judge.