Another Round Begins in The Middle East

[Eli]

Cease fire ended.

Tens of rockets had fallen on Israeli towns around Gaza every day.

Israel promised a response.

A short while ago the IAF started hitting Hamas targets around Gaza. Early reports (which tend to exaggerate) talk about dozens of Palestinian dead. Combatants/Civilians ratio still unclear.

[Naked Gents Rut]

Push them into the sea.

[Eli]

Apparently about 30 Hamas targets were hit. Offices, administration buildings, training camps etc. The latest number says 120 dead. That's quite unprecedented.

The IDF says it's only the beginning.

[Lancer]

Firing rockets into towns is bad for children and other living things.

[aneeshm]

I'm cheering for Israel. Show them no mercy!

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Lancer
Firing rockets into towns is bad for children and other living things.

So is smoking. They should really do something about that.

[Lancer]

Airstrikes on smokers houses.

[Unimatrix11]

One would think, that after, what?, 30?, 40?, 50? years of fighting, that both sides would have realized the futility of it. Hamas´ rockets wont make the israelis leave, and israel´s air strikes wont stop the rockets from flying. There is no need for speculation - it´s been proven over and over again. It´s like running against a wall - repeatedly.

Wouldnt it be smarter for israel, to try and buy the leaders ? Like, you know, give them a huge pension secretly, so that they calm down their people. And of course threatening with assassination should they not act upon contract. In Germany, we have a saying: ´sugar-bread and the whip´, meaning ´reward and punishment´ - thats how you get to cooperation.

And then of course, there needs to be done something about the causes. I mean Gaza is like a metropolis - it´s got about as many inhabitants as Hamburg - and is about the same size. Only that it gets shot off from the rest of the world like West-Berlin during the blockade from time to time. No-one goes there though, saying the people there should be proud as roman saying they are romans 2000 years ago when they say that they are gazaian. I can only imagine, that they feel left alone and bitter and frustrated. The wall in the west banks doesnt really help. When it was erected in Berlin, the whole world protested. Not so much this time. Apparently, even the (nazi) germans, who caused the biggest war ever and topped it all of with the holocaust, are better respected than they are. How would you feel ? (remembering some native american song: ´And even when Germany fell to your hands, you left them their pride, and you left them their lands...´)

When ´terrorists´ strike, they do it, because they have a reason. A reason of which most people may be ignorant, oblivious or even of contrary opinion. What matters tho is, that THEY believe in the reason. It is imperative to undestand that reason, and find ways to alliviate it. It should be realized on both sides, that the enemy is not always on the other side of the fence, but that those who give the cause for the ´evil-doers´ are most often located within the own camp. The palestiansians should really go after those rocketeers. Israel should offer (but not force upon them) help for this task. If taken prisoner (and that should always be top priority - to NOT kill them), they should be brought to Israeli hospitals, where those wounded by the rockets lay. To schools, looking into jewish childrens eyes and realize, that it freaking doesnt matter, that they are jewish. And they should talk to them: Why they thought there was no other way than launching rockets. What they can do, to lessen their urge to launch rockets. Short: Fight the hatred not the people.

This may all sound super-naive. To show you it´s not, i want to also point out the alternative: If reconcilliation wont be achieved in the near future, Israel is seriously running the risk of a second holocaust. As things are now, i bet, there are elements among the radical palestinisians (and their allies), willing and soon able to bring unprecendented horror to Israel´s cities. They cant be forced to stop. They need to be convinced they dont want to do that.

[dannubis]

Originally posted by aneeshm
I'm cheering for Israel. Show them no mercy!

and this is what is wrong with india. and with you as a person.

[Winston]

Israel

Now and always.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by dannubis


and this is what is wrong with india. and with you as a person.

The problem with you is that you don't have the stomach for what is sometimes necessary. Israel has put up with enough s*** for more than enough time to make this a warranted response.

When your enemy is firing rockets into civilian areas into your territory, and when that enemy is a state whose government is democratically elected, with the overwhelming majority voting for the current party in power, AND with the elections being certified fair by neutral observers (UN or EU, I forget which), then you are justified in retaliating against the state. The people share responsibility, as the government is one which THEY elected.

The objective of war is peace, whichever way it is achieved. If it takes overwhelming force to attain that objective, so be it.

[Ming]

Enough with the personal stuff folks... discuss the topic and NOT the posters.

[Unimatrix11]

You know, aneeshm, when a people, decides to elect the way the palestinians did, then at least there is some probability, that there is a reason for it. Maybe look into it, instead of lethal prejudice ? Also remember, what your statement would mean for the US under Bush. Just as a sidenote, you know...

I know the two situations arent comparable 1:1 (there hardly ever is), but say the native americans: They raided cowboy towns or whatnot, because they felt they had a reason for it. Today, many people are aware of that reason and some call it a good one. Too late. That´s because people in the 19th century thought pretty much along the lines you just displayed here, aneeshm.

Had people back then rather thought along the lines of: ´hell, we are taking everything they need away from them - we shouldnt be surprised they are angry on us. Let´s talk, and see if we cant co-exist in a peaceful way...´- who knows how many lives would be saved and how much less bitterness would have emerged.

And just because retaliation might be ´justified´, it hardly ever is the smartest move. It will change nothing at all, except intensifying the conflict.

And absence of war is not peace. The first half of the 20th century in europe showed pretty well, what a ´peace´ is worth when it is solely based on force. So does the whole palestinesian mayhem.

The goal of war is to break the will of the adversary and make him succomb to your own - not peace (and there is even instances, i believe, where war was fought just for it´s own sake). Peace is when both sides respect and understand each other. War never achieved that. It is the period after the war, where peace must be established. It doesnt automatically come about after the signing of a peace-treaty. The way war supports peace is by its victims: When both sides look at the loss of lives and realize, that they both dont want that to happen again. Its much smarter to come to terms without all that and on equal grounds.

Politics shouldnt be a matter of ´stomachs´ but of brains. This is not some puberty contest - people die. Sometimes in agony, their guts all over the place. Or their brains. Sometimes their children watch them die like this (remember that horribe video, where a man bleeds to death, caught in a firefight between both sides, with his son in his arms). Or vice versa. This shouldnt continue, just because someone´s c*** is too small and decides by his stomach, that retaliation is justified. It never is btw, cause it doesnt change anything. It´s a stupid, thoughtless, reaction, purely stemming from emotions, often the same that caused the reason for revenge.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

[Unimatrix11]

So, yeah, just got the news: 350 dead.
HAMAS-reaction: Guess, what ? They call for retaliation. It´s a great day for Israel, truely... The situation is much saver now. Bright, peaceful future ahead...