Holy ****!

[Kirnwaffen]

quote:
The Senate Armed Services Committee report concludes that harsh interrogation techniques [...] were directly adapted from the training techniques used to prepare special forces personnel to resist interrogation by enemies that torture and abuse prisoners.

that is actually a very logical conclusion.

It is very logical that some people who underwent interrogation resistance courses, and then suddenly charged with interrogating prisoners with no preparation and looming deadlines, would think to use these methods.

the logical jump from that to
quote:
The physical and mental abuse of detainees [...] was the direct result of Bush administration detention policies

is completely unfounded.

quite the contrary, the finding just strengthens the "bad apples" argument even more, by explaining the source of the misbehavior.

The committee didn't conclude that personnel who underwent SERE adapted the techniques themselves; the committee concluded that SERE techniques were adopted after high level reviews of reports from a USAF shrink on their effectiveness against US Soldiers. So, basically, DoD took a look at the SERE stuff, and then made it policy.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Sirotnikov
the logical jump from that to

The physical and mental abuse of detainees [...] was the direct result of Bush administration detention policies

is completely unfounded.

quite the contrary, the finding just strengthens the "bad apples" argument even more, by explaining the source of the misbehavior.

Aside from that 'little' part you missed:

"The message from top officials was clear; it was acceptable to use degrading and abusive techniques against detainees," Levin said.

[Bosh]

So basically anyone the government thinks *might* be a terrorist doesn't have any human rights?

Good day to you comrade, I am happy that your re-education is proceeding so quickly.

[dannubis]

So when are we waterboarding Rumsfeld and Cheney ?

[SlowwHand]

When are we waterboarding half the people here?

[dannubis]

half the people here didn't kill (or get killed) half the people R & C did.

[MrFun]

If torture is perfectly permissible to use against wartime enemies Slowwy, does this mean that what the VietCong did to American POWs was acceptable?

[dannubis]

*enter new definition here that R&C developed so Geneva convention applies in one case but not in the other...

[MrFun]

I would like to know the difference between what the VietCong did to American POWs and what American soldiers have done to Guatanamo prisoners.

[Naked Gents Rut]

I would like to know the difference between what the VietCong did to American POWs and what American soldiers have done to Guatanamo prisoners.

And you try to pass yourself off as a historian? Jesus Christ...

[snoopy369]

It is an integral element of the Constitution of the United States of America - and therefore, an integral part of (the US of) America - that you are innocent until proven guilty. It is intellectually, and ethically, dishonest for us to claim this applies only to American citizens, because we believe (or, the founding fathers believed, anyhow) that it was a fundamental human right.

Thus, until the terrorists have been proven guilty, they forgo no basic human rights. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who believes otherwise is not an American.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by snoopy369
It is an integral element of the Constitution of the United States of America - and therefore, an integral part of (the US of) America - that you are innocent until proven guilty. It is intellectually, and ethically, dishonest for us to claim this applies only to American citizens, because we believe (or, the founding fathers believed, anyhow) that it was a fundamental human right.

Thus, until the terrorists have been proven guilty, they forgo no basic human rights. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who believes otherwise is not an American.

Sounds reasonable, Snoopy.

[SlowwHand]

That reminds me of the woman during karaoke at the American Legion, who sang "God Bless The USA" and wanted everyone to get up, hold hands in a circle and sway.
When people balked, she said that they weren't true Americans. This, in a veteran's organization facility.
I was afraid she wouldn't make it out unhurt.

[Imran Siddiqui]

The only question here was whether or not terrorism suspects had human rights.

If you actually do believe in natural rights (and in the past, you have said you do, David), then of course they have human rights. If they are inalienable (if you agree with Mr. Jefferson), that means they can't give them up.

[SlowwHand]

They have human rights, not American citizen rights.