Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Holy ****!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Holy ****!

    A bi-partisan report has concluded that violating human rights is wrong!

    Abuses of Guatanamo prisoners.

    WASHINGTON – The physical and mental abuse of detainees in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, was the direct result of Bush administration detention policies and should not be dismissed as the work of bad guards or interrogators, according to a bipartisan Senate report released Thursday.

    The Senate Armed Services Committee report concludes that harsh interrogation techniques used by the CIA and the U.S. military were directly adapted from the training techniques used to prepare special forces personnel to resist interrogation by enemies that torture and abuse prisoners. The techniques included forced nudity, painful stress positions, sleep deprivation, and until 2003, waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning.

    The report is the result of a nearly two-year investigation that directly links President Bush's policies after the 9/11 terrorist attacks, legal memos on torture, and interrogation rule changes with the abuse photographed at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq four years ago. Much of the report remains classified. Unclassified portions of the report were released by the committee Thursday.

    Administration officials publicly blamed the abuses on low-level soldiers_ the work "of a few bad apples." Committee Chairman Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., called that "both unconscionable and false."

    "The message from top officials was clear; it was acceptable to use degrading and abusive techniques against detainees," Levin said.

    Arizona Republican and former prisoner of war Sen. John McCain, called the link between the survival training and U.S. interrogations of detainees inexcusable.

    "These policies are wrong and must never be repeated," he said in a statement.

    Lawrence Di Rita, a senior aide to former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld at the time the Abu Ghraib and other abuses took place, disputed the report.

    "This oddly timed report provides no evidence that contradicts more than a dozen other investigations that found that there was no systematic or widespread detainee mismanagement," Di Rita told The AP. "A relatively small number of people abused detainees, and they were brought to justice in criminal or civil proceedings."

    The report comes as the Bush administration continues to delay and in some cases bar members of Congress from gaining access to key legal documents and memos about the detainee program, including an August 2002 memo that evaluated whether specific interrogation techniques proposed to be used by the CIA would constitute torture.

    That memo, written by Jay Bybee, then-chief of the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel, was guided in part by an assessment of the psychological effects of resistance survival training on U.S. military personnel. The CIA provided that document to his office, Bybee told the Senate Armed Services Committee in an October letter, obtained by The Associated Press.
    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

  • #2
    What's so amazing about senators sniffing the way the the wind of public support is blowing and catching the breeze?
    I'm consitently stupid- Japher
    I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

    Comment


    • #3
      Of course violating human rights is wrong.

      The only question here was whether or not terrorism suspects had human rights. Obviously, terrorists themselves implicitly give up any such rights when they become, well, terrorists, and just as obviously, people who aren't terrorists have human rights. You can see why terrorism suspects provided us with such a problem.

      Personally I say **** 'em. If you don't associate with terrorists, no one will mistake you for being a terrorist.
      Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
      Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by David Floyd
        Of course violating human rights is wrong.

        The only question here was whether or not terrorism suspects had human rights. Obviously, terrorists themselves implicitly give up any such rights when they become, well, terrorists, and just as obviously, people who aren't terrorists have human rights. You can see why terrorism suspects provided us with such a problem.

        Personally I say **** 'em. If you don't associate with terrorists, no one will mistake you for being a terrorist.
        The problem isn't so much whether terrorists forfeit this or that right as much as it's whether this guy or that guy is in fact a terrorist. Maybe we could at least wait until an official conviction before torturing someone, but that's just me...
        Unbelievable!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by David Floyd
          Of course violating human rights is wrong.

          The only question here was whether or not terrorism suspects had human rights. Obviously, terrorists themselves implicitly give up any such rights when they become, well, terrorists, and just as obviously, people who aren't terrorists have human rights. You can see why terrorism suspects provided us with such a problem.

          Personally I say **** 'em. If you don't associate with terrorists, no one will mistake you for being a terrorist.
          Holy ****, to quote a vaunted Einstein, but David nails yet another one.
          Last edited by SlowwHand; December 11, 2008, 23:08.
          Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
          "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
          He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

          Comment


          • #6
            The Senate Armed Services Committee report concludes that harsh interrogation techniques [...] were directly adapted from the training techniques used to prepare special forces personnel to resist interrogation by enemies that torture and abuse prisoners.
            that is actually a very logical conclusion.

            It is very logical that some people who underwent interrogation resistance courses, and then suddenly charged with interrogating prisoners with no preparation and looming deadlines, would think to use these methods.

            the logical jump from that to
            The physical and mental abuse of detainees [...] was the direct result of Bush administration detention policies

            is completely unfounded.

            quite the contrary, the finding just strengthens the "bad apples" argument even more, by explaining the source of the misbehavior.

            Comment


            • #7
              Obviously, terrorists themselves implicitly give up any such rights when they become, well, terrorists, and just as obviously, people who aren't terrorists have human rights.
              emotionally i tend to agree with that spirit.
              problem is, as darius said - most people are just suspects, and some of them were just unlucky enough to be suspected - bad timing, bad relatives.


              Personally I say **** 'em. If you don't associate with terrorists, no one will mistake you for being a terrorist.
              not as easy as you'd think.

              were you a peaceful resident in Iraq, it would have been incredibly difficult not to appear a terrorist, and not to associate with possible terrorist associates.

              Terrorists often make you their associate without asking questions.

              Hezbullah during the war in Lebanon fired rockets from peaceful neighborhoods, knowing full well Israel would be damned if it responds.

              Hamas in Gaza uses schools and peaceful people's homes to store weapons, and fire rockets from. There were sometimes conflicts with peaceful residents who tried to chase the Hamas thugs off, resulting in the peaceful residents getting killed.

              Obviously the shootout was publicly somehow blamed on Israel.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by David Floyd
                Of course violating human rights is wrong.

                The only question here was whether or not terrorism suspects had human rights. Obviously, terrorists themselves implicitly give up any such rights when they become, well, terrorists, and just as obviously, people who aren't terrorists have human rights. You can see why terrorism suspects provided us with such a problem.

                Personally I say **** 'em. If you don't associate with terrorists, no one will mistake you for being a terrorist.
                See bolded bits.

                And even more importantly were/are they humans?

                JM
                Jon Miller-
                I AM.CANADIAN
                GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sirotnikov

                  Hezbullah during the war in Lebanon fired rockets from peaceful neighborhoods, knowing full well Israel would be damned if it responds.

                  Hamas in Gaza uses schools and peaceful people's homes to store weapons, and fire rockets from. There were sometimes conflicts with peaceful residents who tried to chase the Hamas thugs off, resulting in the peaceful residents getting killed.

                  Obviously the shootout was publicly somehow blamed on Israel.
                  I agree a lot more with some of Israel's responses then with some of the things we have done in some prison camps.

                  JM
                  Jon Miller-
                  I AM.CANADIAN
                  GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You realize JM, that these people think handcuffs are torture? Making them all wear orange is dehumanizing!

                    They would have a lot more support from me to end the more blantant or questionable stuff if they weren't so ridiculous in what they say torture encompasses.
                    "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So, JM, let's start with the basics. Do you believe that we should treat real, actual terrorists with human dignity?

                      Or can we just kill them after pumping them for information, then sew them up into a pigskin and leave drop them in a ditch to rot?

                      Personally, I go for option #2.
                      Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                      Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think that human dignity can include death, even beatings. However, yeah, I am in favor of treating everyone with human dignity. Even torturers.

                        JM
                        Jon Miller-
                        I AM.CANADIAN
                        GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by David Floyd
                          Of course violating human rights is wrong.

                          The only question here was whether or not terrorism suspects had human rights. Obviously, terrorists themselves implicitly give up any such rights when they become, well, terrorists, and just as obviously, people who aren't terrorists have human rights. You can see why terrorism suspects provided us with such a problem.

                          Personally I say **** 'em. If you don't associate with terrorists, no one will mistake you for being a terrorist.
                          I agree. I say we start with Ollie North.
                          I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                          I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If you're killing communists, it doesn't count. That's your get out of jail free card.
                            Follow me on Twitter: http://twitter.com/DaveDaDouche
                            Read my seldom updated blog where I talk to myself: http://davedadouche.blogspot.com/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              What counts is who decides who's a terrorist. That's all.

                              And the contras killed plenty of innocent civilians, so unless all Nicaraguans were commies, Ollie's still a terrorist.
                              I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                              I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X