Make my Day......GOV Blagojevich arrested.

[Boris Godunov]

Yup, at the time Axelrod made the statement, Obama's speaking with Blago would have been seen as a responsible thing to do, I suppose. So it's understandable as a "make the boss look good" statement. Still dumb to say it if he wasn't sure it was true, but only minorly so.

[rah]

Actually i would find it real surprising if they hadn't chatted about it up to now. The replacement is an important issue. And if they chatted I would be shocked if a little political mutual back scratching wasn't involved. THAT's politics. I not talking about the flagrant offer a million dollars, but nobody does anything in politics unless they're getting something in return.
Anyway, to make a long story short, I wouldn't think it negative about Obama if they had chatted, and I hope if they did, he doesn't lie about it because then what might have been innocent could look bad.

[Naked Gents Rut]

I hope if they did, he doesn't lie about it

Too late.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by rah
And if they chatted I would be shocked if a little political mutual back scratching wasn't involved. THAT's politics. I not talking about the flagrant offer a million dollars, but nobody does anything in politics unless they're getting something in return.

Then you should be shocked already, since Blago fumes in the recordings that the only thing the Obama camp had to offer him was their thanks.

[rah]

There's still time to make up something about missunderstanding or whatever if they do it quickly. If not, what has been said will stand.

He could say they mentioned it but there was never any OFFER/exchange of favors discussed and that' what he meant originally.

[rah]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Then you should be shocked already, since Blago fumes in the recordings that the only thing the Obama camp had to offer him was their thanks.

And you wouldn't expect an offer to come from the CAMP, it would have to come from the "ONE". But yes now that you metion it, I did read that and that would lead me to believe that Obama hadn't personally returned his call yet. I wouldn't put snubbing the gov past him. I mean, look at him, he not only sounds like a putz, he looks like one. I'm sure he'll be popular in the pen.

[Ramo]

And you wouldn't expect an offer to come from the CAMP, it would have to come from the "ONE".

Why? And what do you think Obama was possibly willing to offer? Even before the arrest, Blago was way too radioactive to fundraise for him, much less give him something like HHS. Obama was willing to endorse him in 2006, but that was against a Republican - and over two years ago. Absolutely no way he'd get an endorsement over Madigan.

[rah]

I'm not saying that he'd offer something outragous, but a simple future consideration on state support or something.
In reality ROD doesn't have to pay attention to Obama's recommendation for replacement, but since he was the only black senator he probably had interest in his replacement being black, and it would have been worth something.
Politicians trade favors all the time. Senators support someone else's bill because they promised to support his. etc. It's normal business. It's politics.

The only difference here is Rod is an idiot and thinks it's worth millions and he was dumb enough to say it on the phone after challanging the feds to wiretap him.

SO this is really about discretion and scale.
If there was some minor back scratching here I wouldn't have cared, and I think the feds wouldn't have either.

[Naked Gents Rut]

Nebraska is the least corrupt state in America.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-12-10-corruptstates_N.htm

[Boris Godunov]

Oregon 2nd least

[rah]

based on public corruption convictions per 100k res

hmm.
dumber politicians could impact that.
corruption on the prosecuting side could impact that.
dedication on the prosecuting side could impact that.
Competence on the prosecuting side could impact that.
And quite a few states only have a hand ful of convictions so there's probably no statistical diff on a lot of those lessly populated states.

So take those ranking as you may. (but do agree that there's probably good corolation here)

[Naked Gents Rut]

The ranking is probably bull, but I'm cool with that if Nebraska is #1.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Ramo
Why? And what do you think Obama was possibly willing to offer?

Obviously nothing direct; as Rah said, something like vague political support of this or that (such as SEIU legislation or 501(c)(4) fundraising) might be a "clean" consideration in lieu of money, and IMO there would be nothing unusual or even inherently wrong about that. It's just that there's no evidence, of course.

So far the only things in the entire complaint that might raise an eyebrow about Obama are ones like the quote below, but of course it's only John Harris' impression of what Obama would potentially be willing to do, not evidence that any commitment had been made:

ROD BLAGOJEVICH mentioned the Senate seat, the dynamics of a new Presidential administration with the strong contacts that ROD BLAGOJEVICH has in it...

November 7
During the call, ROD BLAGOJEVICH, [JOHN] HARRIS, and Advisor B [a Washington D.C.-based consultant] discussed the prospect of working a three-way deal for the open Senate seat. HARRIS noted that ROD BLAGOJEVICH is interested in taking a high-paying position with an organization called “Change to Win,” which is connected to Service Employees International Union (“SEIU”). HARRIS suggested that SEIU Official make ROD BLAGOJEVICH the head of Change to Win and, in exchange, the President-elect could help Change to Win with its legislative agenda on a national level.

Advisor B asked why SEIU Official cannot just give the job to ROD BLAGOJEVICH. HARRIS responded that it would be just a big “give away” for SEIU Official and Change to Win since there are already individuals on the Change to Win payroll doing the functions of the position that would be created for ROD BLAGOJEVICH. HARRIS said that Change to Win will want to trade the job for ROD BLAGOJEVICH for something from the President-elect. HARRIS suggested a “three-way deal,” and explained that a three-way deal like the one discussed would give the President-elect a “buffer so there is no obvious quid pro quo for [Senate Candidate 1].”

November 10
HARRIS said they could work out a three-way deal with SEIU and the President-elect where SEIU could help the President-elect with ROD BLAGOJEVICH’s appointment of Senate Candidate 1 to the vacant Senate seat, ROD BLAGOJEVICH would obtain a position as the National Director of the Change to Win campaign, and SEIU would get something favorable from the President-elect in the future.

One of ROD BLAGOJEVICH’s advisors said he likes the idea, it sounds like a good idea, but advised ROD BLAGOJEVICH to be leery of promises for something two years from now.

http://snsimages.tribune.com/media/a...2/43790151.pdf

Of course, Harris' "suggestion" was made on November 7th and 10th, and the oft-repeated quote "[no]thing except appreciation. **** them" wasn't until the 11th, so one might conclude that some sort of contact with Obama's camp occurred in the interim to prompt his abandoning the idea.

On the other hand, his similar "give this mother****er [the President-elect] his senator. **** him. For nothing? **** him" comment was on the 10th, before the second time Harris seriously floated the idea, which makes me think they continued to consider it a possibility, meaning they were never explicitly rebuffed.

Indeed, even after the "[no]thing except appreciation. **** them" phone call, which supposedly suggests he abandoned the idea, later in the day he continued conspiring with Advisor A to have Jackson's candidacy leaked to the Sun-Times, a leak which a previous call indicated was for the specific purpose of letting the President-elect know that the clock was ticking and he needed to make a decision on Candidate 1. The fact that they continued down that course makes it obvious that they seriously believed a quid pro quo with Obama was still a possibility if given enough work, which goes against the theory that they were rebuffed. In a call on the 12th they were still so certain about it that they believed Candidate 1's withdrawal of interest was "just a tactic" and Blago floated an alternative where Obama's camp would "say ‘hey, we get [Senate Candidate 1]. Let’s help this guy [Blagojevich] have a 501(c)(4) issue advocacy organization. Let’s fund it to the level that he’s asked for and then we’ll get [Senate Candidate 1],'" and in two separate calls on the 12th he "noted that the President-elect can ask Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, and others for money for the organization" and suggested “[the President-elect] gets these Warren Buffett types to [fund it].” Later again on the 12th they debated over whether the SEIU deal would be better than the 501(c)(4) one because the former would have "fewer 'fingerprints' on the President-elect’s involvement" despite having less long-term certainty for Blago, and again on the 13th Blago and Advisor A discussed how there was "still some life in [Candidate 1]" despite her "tactical" withdrawal, when arranging another conversation with "President-elect Advisor" to float the 501(c)(4) idea. It's not until that point that no more discussions of Candidate 1 are included in the complaint and offers from Candidate 5's associates take the limelight.

I guess my point is that the "[no]thing but appreciation. **** them" comment doesn't mean Blago and his advisors were explicitly rebuffed and thus abandoned all hopes of a quid pro quo with Obama's camp, since they continued to extensively discuss it long after that comment was made, apparently under the impression that Obama's camp just needed a little more pressure (e.g. by the Sun-Times story on Jackson) and/or persuasion by a more palatble alternative (e.g. by the 501(c)(4) plan instead of the SEIU plan). Obviously that they thought it feasible doesn't mean it would have happened, or even that Obama's camp took it seriously, but in any case one quote out of context doesn't tell the whole story. You really have to read the whole complaint to get a sense of what's going on temporally, and of the fact that everything uttered on one phone line is always just the tip of the iceberg.

As Blago noted himself, the most important things are always off the record:

Advisor A asked whether the conversation about the 501(c)(4) with President-elect Advisor is connected with anything else. ROD BLAGOJEVICH replied that “it’s unsaid. It’s unsaid.”

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut
The ranking is probably bull, but I'm cool with that if Nebraska is #1.

True. It's ranked on convictions/100,000 population.
It should be based on convictions/# of politicians.

And even then, states that vigorously prosecute corrupt politicians will appear to be more corrupt than states that look the other wasy.

[Theben]

Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut
The ranking is probably bull, but I'm cool with that if Nebraska is #1.

Apparently North Dakota is the most corrupt state. Illinois only ranks #18.