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  • Nations sign the ban on cluster bombs.

    But Russia, China, and . . .

    yes, even United States refuses to sign this treaty.

    Cluster Bombs Ban

    OSLO, Norway – Nations began signing a treaty banning cluster bombs Wednesday in a move that supporters hope will shame the U.S., Russia and China and other non-signers into abandoning weapons blamed for maiming and killing civilians.

    Norway, which began the drive to ban cluster bombs 18 months ago, was to be first to sign, followed by Laos and Lebanon, both hard-hit by the weapons.

    Organizers said 88 countries were expected to sign on Wednesday and around 100 out of the world's 192 U.N. member nations will have signed by Thursday.

    Cluster bomblets are packed by the hundreds into artillery shells, bombs or missiles that scatter them over vast areas. Some fail to explode immediately. The unexploded bomblets can then lie dormant for years until they are disturbed, often by children attracted by their small size and bright colors.

    "Banning cluster bombs took too long. Too many people lost arms and legs," Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg said as he opened the conference.

    Washington, Moscow and other non-signers say cluster bombs have legitimate military uses such as repelling advancing troop columns. But according to the group Handicap International, 98 percent of cluster-bomb victims are civilians, and 27 percent are children.

    The Bush administration has said that a comprehensive ban would hurt world security and endanger U.S. military cooperation on humanitarian work with countries that sign the accord.

    Activists said ahead of the signing that they hope the treaty will nonetheless shame non-signers into shelving the weapons, as many did with land mines after a 1997 treaty banning them.

    "Once you get half the world on board, its hard to ignore a ban," said Australian anti-cluster bomb campaigner Daniel Barty. "One of the things that really worked well with the land-mine treaty was stigmatization. No one really uses land mines," he said.

    The anti-cluster bomb campaign gathered momentum after Israel's monthlong war against Hezbollah in 2006, when it scattered up to 4 million bomblets across Lebanon, according to U.N. figures.

    "In southern Lebanon, for more than two years, children and the elderly have been victimized (by cluster munitions)," Lebanese Foreign Minister Fawzi Saloukh said.

    Norway called a conference to ban cluster bombs in February 2007. In May, more than 100 countries agreed to ban cluster bombs within eight years.

    The treaty must be ratified by 30 countries before it takes effect.

    "I think it's awesome that 100 countries are coming to Oslo to sign (the new cluster bomb treaty)," said American Jody Williams, who won the 1997 Nobel Peace Prize for her efforts to ban land mines.
    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

  • #2
    Cluster bombs are a great weapon. Just make sure you use them in appropriate target areas.

    Isreal shouldn't have used them the way they did. It actually made no sense to use them that way.
    "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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    • #3
      That explains why only 98 percent of victims are unarmed civilians. Because they're being used in the appropriate areas!
      A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Patroklos
        Cluster bombs are a great weapon. Just make sure you use them in appropriate target areas.
        What is an appropriate area?

        Remote wasteland, where you should have no problem picking them off with more precise weapons?
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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        • #5
          I bet bullets have a similar percentage.
          "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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          • #6
            What is an appropriate area?

            Remote wasteland, where you should have no problem picking them off with more precise weapons?
            This isn't a video game, precision weapons are not a dues ex machina in real world conflicts.

            Just what the article said; Advancing columns of regular military forces during force on force engagements.

            Isreal's use of them when they did made no sense from any perspective. That could be true for any weapon.
            "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Patroklos
              I bet bullets have a similar percentage.
              Pulling claims out of your ass is not cool, Patty.
              A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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              • #8
                But Russia, China, and . . .

                yes, even United States refuses to sign this treaty.
                Good. Cluster munitions are extremely useful.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Pulling claims out of your ass is not cool, Patty.
                  I gave a figure? Please quote.
                  "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Naked Gents Rut


                    Good. Cluster munitions are extremely useful.
                    Let's see if you would ever change your opinion should you ever have a child of your own who has a leg or arm blown off from a cluster bomb.
                    A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Patroklos


                      I gave a figure? Please quote.

                      Well, no you didn't. But then what was the point of your comment in comparing the rate of civilian victims from bullets to that of cluster bombs?
                      A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                      • #12
                        Let's see if you would ever change your opinion should you ever have a child of your own who has a leg or arm blown off from a cluster bomb.
                        Would you be okay with it if your childs arm was blow off by a conventional 2000lb unexploded iron bomb? A 105mm artillary shell?

                        Like any weapon you should consider the target and it's enviroment before using it. If I remember correctly US cluster munitions are designed to disitegrate after prolongled exposure to the enviroment.

                        How many cluster bombs would you need to have 4 four million bomlets? I assume they mean unexploded as well, so that is one hell of a lot of munitions. I call BS.
                        "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well, no you didn't. But then what was the point of your comment in comparing the rate of civilian victims from bullets to that of cluster bombs?
                          That bullets are just as horrendous a weapon (I bet) as cluster munitions as far as civilian casualties go.

                          You understand that not all cluster bombs are anti-personel right? They range from that to anti-tank and anti-runway.
                          "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Patroklos


                            Would you be okay with it if your childs arm was blow off by a conventional 2000lb unexploded iron bomb? A 105mm artillary shell?

                            Like any weapon you should consider the target and it's enviroment before using it. If I remember correctly US cluster munitions are designed to disitegrate after prolongled exposure to the enviroment.

                            How many cluster bombs would you need to have 4 four million bomlets? I assume they mean unexploded as well, so that is one hell of a lot of munitions. I call BS.
                            The point is not that cluster bombs are the only type of weapon that has targeted a significant number of civilians. But there is something particularly horrendous if the 98 percent civilian targets with cluster bombs is true.

                            And it's REALLY ridiculous to ask if I would be okay to have any child of mine mutilated in another way as long it's not done by a cluster bomb.
                            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                            • #15
                              The point is, Mr. Fun, that the rational being used applies to any number of weapons. LETS BAN THEM ALL!!!

                              The landmine similarity thing is the only real leg to stand on, the percentage is not.

                              Again, if used properly (and this is already covered under previous international law) then they are a legitimate and useful weapon. If someone uses it criminally, prosecute them like you would anyone using any other weapon illegally.
                              "The DPRK is still in a state of war with the U.S. It's called a black out." - Che explaining why orbital nightime pictures of NK show few lights. Seriously.

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