Canada's coup d'etat: Opposition parties join to overthrow gov't (Part 2)

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Asher


He can ask the Queen to dismiss her, apparently. Click the link.

I did.

My feeling is that the Queen would refuse this request, though this is untested.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Asher

This is unprecedented also, so why should that stop them?

No, it is not.

We have several precedents from Canada, Ontario and other Commonwealth countries which suggest that the alternate government under Dion would be given a chance. The ONLY unprecedented part of this appears to be the SIZE of the gap between Liberals and Conservatives.

[Asher]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


No, it is not.

I'm not talking about coalitions.

I'm talking about a coalition that was formed likely before sessions even started. One that did not give the new government any reasonable time to govern. One that is formed with ALL parties from the opposition that even then have a NARROW margin of support. One that happened one month after elections. One that will put a leader as PM who was just categorically rejected by voters as PM as PM. One that put a first-time PM in the spot when he's a LAME DUCK and already resigned from his leadership role.

This is absolutely unprecedented. The proximity to the election is what pisses me off so much. Do you think they'd get all the votes they did if people knew they were voting for a Liberal-NDP-Bloc coalition? I guarantee you they wouldn't, and they knew that too.

It's deceptive to voters, it's unethical, and it's absolutely unprecedented.

[Asher]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


I did.

My feeling is that the Queen would refuse this request, though this is untested.

Why would the Queen refuse the request of the elected Prime Minister of the country? The Queen does what she's told, lest she wants an international incident and Canada to revolt over the idea that the Queen has a LEGIT say in what happens in this country, not just a ceremonial one.

The general consensus was she'd be obligated by convention to adhere to the Prime Minister's request.

[Wezil]

I have to agree. For the queen to do anything other than what was legitimately asked would create an even further crisis. I don't think she could refuse this.

I have no idea what the public would make of the request although I wouldn't mind seeing the whole monarchy debate erupt. Perhaps a later date would be better though.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Asher

I'm not talking about coalitions.

I'm talking about a coalition that was formed likely before sessions even started. One that did not give the new government any reasonable time to govern. One that is formed with ALL parties from the opposition that even then have a NARROW margin of support. One that happened one month after elections. One that will put a leader as PM who was just categorically rejected by voters as PM as PM. One that put a first-time PM in the spot when he's a LAME DUCK and already resigned from his leadership role.

This is absolutely unprecedented. The proximity to the election is what pisses me off so much. Do you think they'd get all the votes they did if people knew they were voting for a Liberal-NDP-Bloc coalition? I guarantee you they wouldn't, and they knew that too.

It's deceptive to voters, it's unethical, and it's absolutely unprecedented.

Errrrr....the closeness to the election is PRECISELY what would suggest that Jean will do anything to avoid having to initiate another election.

Did you not pay attention to the precedent of King's Liberals allying with the Progressives IMMEDIATELY (meaning the the Conservatives were not even given a chance to govern until AFTER King's government fell)?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Asher


Why would the Queen refuse the request of the elected Prime Minister of the country?

Because the request was being made under pressure as the G-G was about to make a decision that the PM doesn't like, but which is supported by the majority of Commons (presumably).

The PM does NOT dictate to the G-G. If the Queen were to grant this request then he would gain this power (the power to dismiss a G-G at will along with the power to select whatever new G-G he wants is equivalent to making the PM the G-G).

[Asher]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Errrrr....the closeness to the election is PRECISELY what would suggest that Jean will do anything to avoid having to initiate another election.

Did you not pay attention to the precedent of King's Liberals allying with the Progressives IMMEDIATELY (meaning the the Conservatives were not even given a chance to govern until AFTER King's government fell)?

We shouldn't have an election, nor should we have the coalition. The government was not given a fair chance to govern. It's even compromised on the issues the opposition most opposed, yet we're still moving forward.

This isn't a true "no confidence" vote, it's a "we lost, we're embarrassed, this is one way to steal power so we're doing it" vote.

The simple fact is, Canada did not and would not elect a Bloc-Liberal-NDP coalition to power. If they wanted this coalition, they should've made it a couple months ago and let the VOTERS choose it. The voters would not have chosen it -- we all know this.

This whole thing stinks as highly unethical and completely disgusting. It's unprecedented in the scale and the audaciousness.

[Asher]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Because the request was being made under pressure as the G-G was about to make a decision that the PM doesn't like, but which is supported by the majority of Commons (presumably).

It doesn't matter. The PM is the elected representative of Canada and the Queen, if she doesn't want a huge mess on her hands, bows to what the PM asks.

FWIW, it seems like the academics disagree with you. It's never happened anyway, so it's all opinion.

I think there will be a bigger ****storm if the Queen refuses the request of the Prime Minister than if she heeds it. The GG is Liberal-appointed and has past ties to Quebec separatists, there is certainly grounds for her being dismissed given the context of a Separatist-Liberal coalition wanting to take power...

[Wezil]

The concerns about the GG being biased would carry more weight had they been made earlier.

[Asher]

No one could possibly have anticipated her having to make this decision. We all know all a GG usually does is stand there and look pretty.

It's a political appointment if I've ever seen one. When was the last time we had a white male GG? No one cares about the GG qualifications, but clearly they need to seeing as how ****ed up our system is.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


Errrrr....the closeness to the election is PRECISELY what would suggest that Jean will do anything to avoid having to initiate another election.

Did you not pay attention to the precedent of King's Liberals allying with the Progressives IMMEDIATELY (meaning the the Conservatives were not even given a chance to govern until AFTER King's government fell)?

King was the sitting PM.

Oh, and the support of the Progressives carried over from the previous Parliament.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher


We shouldn't have an election, nor should we have the coalition. The government was not given a fair chance to govern. It's even compromised on the issues the opposition most opposed, yet we're still moving forward.

This isn't a true "no confidence" vote, it's a "we lost, we're embarrassed, this is one way to steal power so we're doing it" vote.

The simple fact is, Canada did not and would not elect a Bloc-Liberal-NDP coalition to power. If they wanted this coalition, they should've made it a couple months ago and let the VOTERS choose it. The voters would not have chosen it -- we all know this.

This whole thing stinks as highly unethical and completely disgusting. It's unprecedented in the scale and the audaciousness.

And that's the crux of what Harper will argue to the GG.

I wonder what impact public opinion will have in her decision.

As for dismissing the GG, Harper would ask for something like proroguement and if she says no, then he would ask the Queen to dismiss her with some grounds for it.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Asher

This is unprecedented also, so why should that stop them?

Not really. Happened four times in Canadian provincial legislatures, and six in the British parliament.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


Not really. Happened four times in Canadian provincial legislatures, and six in the British parliament.

Stop being a douche and read the responses already written, thanks.

Also, for your edification, the Canadian federal government is not the same as a provincial legislature, nor is it the British parliament.