Canada's coup d'etat: Opposition parties join to overthrow gov't (Part 2)

[Asher]

I just had to cull my Facebook friends list yet again due to the stupidity of people posting links which infuriated me.

[notyoueither]

Harper is going to demand an election if his government falls.

[Asher]

I don't understand why people who think our economy needs stimulus are against pumping $300M and creating jobs by having another election.

[Wezil]

Originally posted by RedFred
The only winners I see is the Bloc and possibly the Greens because the Greens were not involved in the whole mess.

You must have missed it. May publicly supported the coalition yesterday. She even threw the support of all the 0 Green seats behind it.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Wezil


You must have missed it. May publicly supported the coalition yesterday. She even threw the support of all the 0 Green seats behind it.

And she all but said Dion will name her a senator.

[Wezil]

That would not surprise me.

It should be interesting tonight. Harper and Dion are both taking their messages to TV. 7pm.

[Wezil]

OTTAWA — A defiant Prime Minister Stephen Harper will take his pitch directly to the Canadian people tonight in a televised address as Conservative sources strongly hinted he would seek to end the current session of Parliament tomorrow.

Mr. Harper will speak to Canadians at 7 p.m. ET Wednesday in an effort to justify his decision to stay in power rather than yield the prime minister's office to Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion and his alliance with the New Democratic Party and separatist Bloc Québécois.

Expectations are growing that Mr. Harper will ask Governor-General Michaëlle Jean to prorogue Parliament until January. If approved, the move would allow the Prime Minister to avoid a confidence vote scheduled for Monday, where the three opposition parties have vowed to defeat the minority Conservative government.

Ms. Jean was returning to Canada on Wednesday after cutting short a European trip to deal with the political upheaval in Ottawa.

The Conservative Party was quick off the mark with radio ads decrying the planned coalition that seeks to oust the party from power

The Conservatives say they will consider 'all options' to prevent an opposition coalition from toppling their minority government

There was also debate over the opposition's response to Mr. Harper's address. The Prime Minister's Office has recommended to broadcasters that airtime be given to only one representative of the proposed coalition.

The Liberals said this afternoon that Mr. Dion would speak tonight on TV following Mr. Harper's address. And the NDP has written to CTV News requesting that all three party leaders be allowed to speak tonight.

"We respectfully remind broadcasters that the proposed coalition is just that: a proposal to the Canadian people by two of Canada political parties with the backing of a third," writes Anne McGrath, chief of staff to NDP Leader Jack Layton. "Canada, in fact, has precedent on this matter. Former prime minister Paul Martin addressed the nation on April 21, 2005, the three other parties in the House of Commons were afforded time to respond."

In that case, the former Liberal prime minister sought to address fallout from his party's sponsorship scandal. Mr. Martin promised to hold an election within 10 months, to allow time for the publication of the final report from the public inquiry into the affair.

Mr. Harper, who was then leader of the Official Opposition, called the speech a "sad spectacle."

"This government does not have the moral authority to govern between now and then and to deal with important issues such as the budget," he said at the time.

Within days of Mr. Martin's speech, the Liberals secured a short term arrangement to stay in power with the support of the NDP. Mr. Harper and Bloc Québécois Leader Gilles Duceppe continued to demand an election. Mr. Layton criticized Mr. Harper using very similar language to that employed by the Prime Minister in the current situation.

"Mr. Harper will be getting into bed with the separatists," the NDP Leader said in April, 2005.

The Conservative Party is not paying for Wednesday night's address. The Prime Minister's Office is asking networks to carry it on a voluntary basis, rather than issuing an order in council demanding broadcast time.

(continued)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20081203.wPOLcoalition1203/BNStory/Front

[embalmer42]

Originally posted by Wezil


You must have missed it. May publicly supported the coalition yesterday. She even threw the support of all the 0 Green seats behind it.

[Asher]

"the Bloc Quebecois said it is seeking up to $500 million in post-secondary education transfers in the first budget of a proposed Liberal-NDP coalition government"

Here we go. Spread 'em, Canada, Quebec is about to hit the jackpot.

[Wezil]

She did. She even held a news conference to do it. It was gripping politics I tell ya.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

If the plurality has no meaning, then how did Harper 'win' the election?

He didn't. Well, he won his seat, I suppose.

Nonsense.

There was never any discussion of the coalition because the Tories 'won' the election by gaining the most seats.

The coalition would have been illegitimate before the throne speech, and a case could be made that it remains so now.

Originally posted by KrazyHorse

The public has decided on a PC minority government.

No, they haven't. The public does not decide governments. Commons does.

Do you think Liberal and NDP MPs will be allowed to vote their conscience?

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Asher

Here we go. Spread 'em, Canada, Quebec is about to hit the jackpot.

I should try to get on the gravy train. I may have a government mp as my representative before long.

Post-post-secondary grant.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Flubber
NObody in part 1 addressed my poits/questions about if you don't let Dion govern what exactly do you do? Harper is unable to pass anything if the other three parties are opposed and there is little certainty that an election would materially alter things.

So do you

1. Have the facade of Harper as PM when he cannot pass anything?
2. Have election after election?
3. Something else?

The bottom line is that the system MUST still work if the leading party is opposed by everyone else. The way it works here is to allow the next leading party to attempt to govern.

The fact that it is Dion with the support of separatists and socialists is irrelevant. The rules have to be the same for that grouping as it would be if in some alternate universe the Reform and PCs had a majority between them but with the Liberals as the largest party.

The identity of the parties cannot determine things. Either a coalition that excludes the largest party is allowable or it is not-- full stop

I'm coming to think another election is exactly what should happen.

There are significant points against the coalition taking over. Harper cannot continue.

There is no legitimate government to be formed.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by notyoueither
The coalition would have been illegitimate before the throne speech

Errr...no. If the other 3 parties had sent a letter to Jean immediately following the election saying that they would under no circumstances grant Harper the confidence of the Commons while they would grant it to Dion then Jean would have allowed Dion to have first crack at it. This is PRECISELY what King did in 1925.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by notyoueither

There is no legitimate government to be formed.

Canada has elected a Commons. This Commons is going to give a Dion government its confidence. This is all that has ever been required to form a government: the confidence of the House of Commons.

To suggest otherwise is to proclaim yourself ignorant of parliamentary practice of the last 300 years.