Can we defeat homosexuality?

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Hence my point that, were he born in India, JM would likely be arguing just as strenuously regarding Hinduism instead of Christianity.

Not necessarily, I had my doubting phase/looking at other belief systems phase. It was only afte rlooking around that I decided that Christianity was best. And I wasn't sure of my choice until after I had been following Christ for a while.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

Any geologist, physicist or biologist would do a spit take if told it didn't make a difference whether or not Genesis was or wasn't literally true.

Err, you know that nothing in biology, physics, or geology makes it so that Genesis isn't literally true?

In fact, nothing in science makes it so that we know the universe wasn't created 1 year ago?

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


And I never disagreed with that. In fact, I said that was the entire value of it. Which is why I asked "what are you arguing about?"

But we're back to the issue of the immutable morality of God, which is a doctrine of Christianity and other religious faiths. If the actions of people or god were moral 5000 years ago, they have to be moral today as well. If morality has changed, the most reasonable conclusion is because the moral precepts supposedly imposed by god were not correct because, in truth, they were the morals of the people of the time, and they fabricated their image of god around those moral views.

Err, no. Morals are the same now and then, but if you were going to survive and prosper then it was crucial to make sure the diseased people were put outside fo the camp (For example).

This created many of the laws that people who don't think attack. But that is quite reasonable when there are no doctors.

However, now we send such people ot hospitals. Both are the correct moral thing to do, for different times/situations.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by GePap


Religion is inseparable from politics - after all, how can you pssibly separate the use of temporal power from the supposed source of morality and the basis for lawmaking?

Unorganized religion?/

JM

[GePap]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


Unorganized religion?/

JM

We usually term those cults.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


Err, no. Morals are the same now and then, but if you were going to survive and prosper then it was crucial to make sure the diseased people were put outside fo the camp (For example).

This created many of the laws that people who don't think attack. But that is quite reasonable when there are no doctors.

However, now we send such people ot hospitals. Both are the correct moral thing to do, for different times/situations.

JM

So you think it is morally correct for kids who don't honor their parents to be stoned to death?

If so, what do you think of our morality now that we don't in fact do this?

If not, why was it moral back then, but not today?

[Elok]

Originally posted by GePap
We usually term those cults.

? I usually reserve that label for religions which are all too organized, e.g. Scientology.

[Asher]

The term replies to all religions equally well (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Scientology). It's just a very cold day for the religious folk when they realize it.

Society has tried to define the word to only mean "unorthodox" religions, but cult accurately describes the followers of Christianity as well as it does Scientology.

[Asher]

Edit: Wrong thread.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Asher


Aside from the fact that they ARE, I didn't know you supported gay marriage?

Well, Episcopalians have allowed the consecration of gay priests and bishops. I know for a fact that where gay marriage has been legalized Episcopalian churches have performed gay marriages. If any of this bothered me I'd have left PECUSA for another church, probably one of the new so-called "Anglican" churches in the US.

[Asher]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Well, Episcopalians have allowed the consecration of gay priests and bishops. I know for a fact that where gay marriage has been legalized Episcopalian churches have performed gay marriages. If any of this bothered me I'd have left PECUSA for another church, probably one of the new so-called "Anglican" churches in the US.

I couldn't care less that some other church with the same description as yours somewhere have married gays.

I asked what you believed.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by GePap

If not, why was it moral back then, but not today?

It is a different culture now. Death was the result of everything at the time, mostly because it was a more barbaric age and for something to be treated seriously death or something similar was the punishment.

The intrinsic morality relates to it being good to honor your parents.

JM

[GePap]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


It is a different culture now. Death was the result of everything at the time, mostly because it was a more barbaric age and for something to be treated seriously death or something similar was the punishment.

The intrinsic morality relates to it being good to honor your parents.

JM

The bible is not saying that honoring your parents is just "good" (like say, being curteous to your neighbors, or helping strangers), the bible made honoring parents a crucial social responsibility, akin to not committing theft, adultery, or murder.

There are few societal consequences for not honoring your parents today - that is a very different moral universe than one in which failing to honor your parents is a sin worthy of death, and no, not everything meant death back in biblical times.

Morality isn't just about saying "oh, this is good, that isn't,", it is about creating a societal order.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Not necessarily, I had my doubting phase/looking at other belief systems phase. It was only afte rlooking around that I decided that Christianity was best. And I wasn't sure of my choice until after I had been following Christ for a while.

But you were born and raised in a society in which Christianity was a cultural norm, whereas something like Hinduism is exotic. It would have been the opposite in India, and it's fair to say that this would make a huge difference on your perspectives and hence your eventual choice.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Err, you know that nothing in biology, physics, or geology makes it so that Genesis isn't literally true?

In fact, nothing in science makes it so that we know the universe wasn't created 1 year ago?

JM

Yeah, and you could just be a brain floating in a jar somewhere, blah blah blah. Let's not go down the path of solipsism, OK?

A literal reading of Genesis does indeed contradict a good chunk of modern science. Arguing that point is ridiculous.