Possible cat ownership.

[-Jrabbit]

So you're saying it's reasonable to put your pets at dire risk, significantly reducing their life expectancy, just so that they can follow their stalking instinct? How is that not cruel?

[Jon Miller]

Because they are happier.

JM

[notyoueither]

We could bundle up our children in bubble wrap, keep them on leashes, not let them drive (even with us) and prevent all possible sort of harm until they are 35.

What is cruel?

[MrFun]

I had already decided that whatever two cats I decide to get will be 100 percent indoor cats so they can live a much longer, healthier lifestyle.

As for the risk of an indoor cat becoming overweight. I would think that becoming overweight has more to do with over-feeding it and having a low energy level. An indoor cat can get plenty of exercise with toys, an attentive owner, and especially with a second cat for a playmate. There is also special cat food that has been made for weight control.

There is nothing cruel about keeping your cats indoors 100 percent of the time.

[notyoueither]

And there is nothing cruel or neglectful about letting cats go outside, either.

I don't recommend kicking an adult house cat out the door 'cause it will be good for it, btw. The animal would not be well prepared to deal with it.

However, take a young adult cat off a farm and lock it up indoors for the rest of its days. That is cruel.

I guess that is the point from which I am looking at this.

There are 2 kittens being molested/adored by a four-year old that are coming to live with me as soon as the tot's mother wants to part with them. They are farm cats.

I live in an urban area. I would be happier for longer if I make them house cats, no doubt. No loss, for me.

[-Jrabbit]

Originally posted by notyoueither
We could bundle up our children in bubble wrap, keep them on leashes, not let them drive (even with us) and prevent all possible sort of harm until they are 35.

What is cruel?

NYE, that's just an asinine argument. We are not talking about people here. Human parents watch their progeny. They take precautions like childproofing their homes until the kids can be taught to take care of themselves. The great thing is kids can actually learn how to swim, handle stairs, etc. They are being raised to be free and independent humans who will be on their own, albeit 18 years down the road.

Pets OTOH are not being prepared to leave the nest. They are entirely dependent on their owners, and they will act "naturally" within whatever environment you provide. I believe a responsible owner of cats, especially in an urban area, does best to keep them indoors.

Added note: Farm cats are a whole different issue, NYE. I have been, I think, pretty specific in talking about urban environments on this topic.

[notyoueither]

I guess I am asking who you are protecting.

[MattBowron]

my pet cat was an indoors/outdoors cat and she lived til she was 19, she could have lived longer, but my folks against my wishes put her down because she had a number of problems, she had thyroid problems, limps, was yowling for no apparent reason and was basically going deaf. I knew her since she was a kitten, back in 1989 when we first got her. I remember trying to let her follow me and my sister into our cubbies, she'd always be scratching at my door and yowling at me to let her in, which I did, she'd hog the bed. She'd stalk a lot, usually after pigeons, killed a few mice and a few birds, and even followed us out of the house to the beach one time (we lived only a few meters away at the time). She'd sharpen her claws on the tree, usually would just go to the toilet in the back yard. Cleaning up after her was a pain. She'd yowl at other cats that got too close, and would tend to be more wary of visitors, but she'd always be there in my life from when I was 4. I still miss her.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I'd rather give them a little freedom, risky as it may be, than a long sedentary existence.

A cat that doesn't stalk is a waste of a cat.

My indoor cats stalk plenty Erasers, feathered cat toys, rugs, each other, curtains, ... they find plenty of things to stalk (and to lose to ... particularly the rugs!)

[UnOrthOdOx]

I've had 100% indoor cats and 100% outdoor cats, never an indoor/outdoor cat.


The first one died at 8 years old when a neighbor ***** dropkicked it. I was only 7 at the time. He was wounded, and just left that night to die alone. We found him 2 days later. He was a great cat, always leaving us 'presents' on the doorstep. Birds, mice, peacocks...

The second one I rescued from some neighbor kids that were stoning it. We called him toes, but most the neighborhood called him "Lucifer". He was being stoned because he was born with 8 legs, essentially. The legs kinda fused together so you could see both sets of bones, but each leg had 2 feet. He was vicious to other children of the neighborhood, but curled up with me as I waited for the bus every morning. Didn't do a whole lot of hunting, that one. The occasional bird or mouse. Grasshoppers were a favorite toy. We put him down at 7 years old due to kidney failure, most likely from antifreeze.

The indoor cats have all had their fronts de-clawed, and are thus kept strictly 100% indoor. 3 of these growing up. From the motherly, to the annoying.

Currently, we have 2. Cosette is now 9. She was adopted shortly after our 1st was born. She stands at my knee, is 4 ft long, and weighs 30 lbs. Allows the kids to smother her, and just purrs.

And Indy. Now 7 months. Has never been outside, kitten of a neighbor's indoor cat. He and Talia (2) sure enjoy getting into trouble together, they are nearly always found together, more often than not playing with something that's not a toy. He has been 'taught' to play fetch, however. Or rather, he has taught us to throw the mouse because he wants to chase it.

On de-clawing...

Cosette's went TERRIBLY.

She was adopted from a rescue agency, and we were forced to use their vet to do the spaying. Since it's a natural time to de-claw (so they're only put under the one time), we did it there as well. Their vet SUCKED. They balled her feet in gauze, made her wear one of the satelite dishes, etc. I felt awful. Then she got infected on the spaying, and essentially the entire operation royally sucked.

Indy, we used our vet. He was home playing and non the wiser he had no claws 24 hours after he was put under to be neutered and de-clawed.


If you are going to keep the cats 100% indoors, I'ld suggest getting 2. And further suggest they be from the same litter. They'll get along better if from the same litter. And, having 2 gives them someone to play with while you're away.

[MrFun]

The satelite dish was to prevent the cat from tearing out her stitches though, right?

[UnOrthOdOx]

Supposedly.

I've been around 8 spay/neuter operations and 6 declawings in the last 30 years. That's the only vet I've ever seen do it that way.

Since the vet specialized in equine care, I'm not especially surprised. Just pissed the adoption agency wouldn't allow us to pick our own vet for the operation.

And I'm not even going into the fact that said agency went bankrupt and we ended up paying for the spaying twice. (it was supposed to be a part of the adoption fee, but we ended up having to pay the vet too)

So, just be careful who you go through. I'ld suggest the county/city shelter, not one of the independant rescue operations due to my experience.

[MrFun]

Yeah, that veternarian could have done a better job with the operation.

[Xorbon]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Catnip can be used as a training aid, actually. It is also a drug (on the level of marijuana, but more of a stimulant). These two things are not mutually exclusive.

I use marijuana to train hippies.

[Asher]

Originally posted by MrFun
Yeah, that veternarian could have done a better job with the operation.

I love it when you are so assertive and opinionated like this.