Is America the new South Africa?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer

KH's first paragraph above is absolute, utter drivel based on the belief that the rich got that way because they deserve it, even if, in fact, most of them inherited it. No study has ever shone that the inheritors have any measurable proportion of the capability of those who built the wealth.

a) I wasn't stating my beliefs. I was providing possible hypotheses.
b) There is no such thing as dessert in any reasonably complicated economic system. Rich people got rich because they were good at getting rich, or were lucky, or both. The attributes which made them good at getting rich (other than luck) are probably inheritable to some extent (larger or smaller). It is at least a prima facie reasonable hypothesis that a significant part of intergenerational income correlation is due to this heridity. Feel free to dispute this with evidence.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
KH: do your numbers include immigrants? Is it possible that immigrants filling high-end jobs in the US depress the upward mobility numbers by crowding out slighty less-qualified Americans who would otherwise get those jobs?

That is a possibility, but since immigrants earn less money than native-born US citizens, it would require some support.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
KH: do your numbers include immigrants? Is it possible that immigrants filling high-end jobs in the US depress the upward mobility numbers by crowding out slighty less-qualified Americans who would otherwise get those jobs?

I might also note that Australia and Canada accept far more immigrants per capita than the US does (order twice as many) yet have much more intergenerational income mobility than the US.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by rah


Interesting, but as stated it looked at attributes but didn't consider things like desire.

So poor Americans are lazier than poor Europeans?

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I might also note that Australia and Canada accept far more immigrants per capita than the US does (order twice as many) yet have much more intergenerational income mobility than the US.

Thanks, that's the kind of number I was looking for to shoot down the hypothesis.

[KrazyHorse]

Most hypotheses which explain large, economy-wide changes by citing immigration can be dismissed out of hand (in the case of the US).

[KrazyHorse]

Typical of why KH is one of our best commentator's despite his own intolerance

This is nonsense. I am the best commentator that Poly has in part because of my intolerance for lazy, fuzzy thinking.

[Kidlicious]

We'd have a lot more economic mobility in the US if more stock brokers jumped off of buildings.

That's all I have to say about that.

[rah]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker

The true test for upwards mobility is what institutional blocks are there to stop those with the most ambition from suceeding.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the true test for upwards mobility is the actual rate of upwards mobility.

How much it happens may not be directly corollated to how much opportunity there is.

If there is no desire to move upwards and no effort made, it can't be used to count against how much opportunity there is. It may be true that there is a corrolation but not necessarily.

If you're stating where it happens more than you are correct, but I don't think that was the original statement.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by rah


How much it happens may not be directly corollated to how much opportunity there is.

If there is no desire to move upwards and no effort made, it can't be used to count against how much opportunity there is. It may be true that there is a corrolation but not necessarily.

If you're stating where it happens more than you are correct, but I don't think that was the original statement.

Originally posted by KrazyHorse


So poor Americans are lazier than poor Europeans?

tertium non datur



Logic's a b1tch.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer

superficial comparitives and asks us to respond. The question has evolved ito something way more interesting. I am surprised that this many people in America don't actually know what a class society is.

It was a shamless troll carved to attract a certain subset of people to the subject.


But I do admit, I myself am stunned at how misunderstood basic sociology is in the US.

[KrazyHorse]

Hera, you are attempting to be too clever for your own good. Stand back before you get hurt.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Hera, you are attempting to be too clever for your own good. Stand back before you get hurt.

I'm trying to troll to relieve the stress of a failed experiment.



Please stop trying to stop me.



In any case yes, there are many other explanations but untill he comes up with a better one he should if he has a shred of intelectuall integrity stick with the better hypothesis, or at least stop putting forward a explanation that contradicts another opinion he holds.

[KrazyHorse]

What experiment? Is it for a lab class?

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
What experiment? Is it for a lab class?

Yes, I need to redo the whole thing tommorw morning (I'm lucky I got a second go). This just shows that actually reading the instructions and not going clubbing the previous night are generally good advice before commiting 3 hours of your time to something.


Also "tertium non datur" is not too smart for anyone, we had a classes that delt with full "formal logic" (lol) in the first year of high school.