Could we exist in a Newtonian world?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Elok
More importantly, could the LHC still kill us all in a Newtonian world?

The LHC can't kill us all in this world either.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by onodera

Unpredictable nonrandom response independent of stimuli.

Independent of stimuli? WTF?

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Elok
"'cause we are liiiiving in a Newtonian world, and you know I'm a Newtonian girl?"

Good idea. If I'm bored at work I'll post a first draft of it.

[Aeson]

Once we determine how consciousness works, then we could perhaps say.

(As for the LHC killing us all... it's not that big a stretch. There are almost countless scenarios where it could in fact. Most likely IMO is such a device has been intergalactically patented by a very powerful alien species, and the intergalactic legal system resolves patent disputes by allowing the injured party to incinerate the offending species. The battle cruisers are on their way now... let's just hope there aren't any "faster" than light travel patents out there they can use without getting incinerated themselves. Otherwise, rather soon we'll end up like the Dinosaurs, who foolishly "invented" the LHC last time around.)

[Elok]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
The LHC can't kill us all in this world either.

I know. I was kidding.

[Traianvs]

I recall reading an interview with a neurologist taken some years ago, in which he claimed our brain sets in motion our actions just nanoseconds earlier than we actually consciously decided to raise our arm for example, implying that we do not really decide on our own actions, but that our behaviour, consciousness and so on merely reflects the way our brain acts. So we probably can't choose who we are.

Too bad I forgot the name of the scientist. Well he ís well known. Bleh.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Lancer
onodera, this is part 5 of the series of 6 that I used in my thread 'I watched a show on fizziks that is freakin bugging me.'

In it the BBC fizzics guy says this:

"I believe there's something worse lurking in the quantum shadows. Something truly nightmarish. Late into the night on physics conferences all over the world, when we scientists huddle together to debate and discuss our strangest ideas and dreams there are still things that really, really bother us. Chief among these are the quantum mechanical laws that atoms obey. In particular one aspect of these laws. Something called the measurement problem. If you want to see fear in a quantum physicists eyes just mention the words, the measurement problem. The measurement problem is this, an atom only appears in a particular place if you measure it. In other words an atom is spread out all over the place until a concious observer decides to measure it. So the act of observation creates the entire universe. Just to show you how mad this idea is I'm going to explain one of the most famous hypothetical experiments blah blah blah..."

Sounds like an outgrowth of Heisenberg's Uncertainty Theorum - one of my favorites.

[Lancer]

If you're living in Jersey the thought that the universe doesn't actually exist must be very comforting. I never had that when I was there.

[SpencerH]

I live here during the week and some weekends (such as this one). You're correct though about the philosophical aspects of time spent in NJ.

[chequita guevara]

It doesn't matter whether we have free will or not, because we have to act as if it is real. We still have to decide, even if the decision was made for us at the moment the big bang happened.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by SpencerH
I live here during the week and some weekends (such as this one). You're correct though about the philosophical aspects of time spent in NJ.

What part of Jersey are you in? I grew up in Bergen County.

Che, thats one of those things I've spent some time thinking about. Decided that if whatever conclusion that I reached thinking about it had already been reached, might as well go have a beer. I'd already decided to have the beer I know, but it still tastes good either way.

[Aeson]

It does matter though. It's not the destination (as if there could ever be a final destination worth getting to), but the journey, those things which happen to us along the way which can prepare us for the challenges ahead

[chequita guevara]

Regardless of whether or not we're simply spectators or active participants, we're still along for the ride. We still have to act in ways that at the very least, give us the illusion of free will. So either it is real or it seems real, and I decided that seeming real was good enough.

I was struggling with this a lot last year. I picked up the book by Douglas Hoffstader, I am a Strange Loop. Among the ideas is that certain things happen at a higher level that you cannot account for at lower levels. We know the mechanisms, but not why an individual neuron, for example, "decides" to impulse one way or another. That's not something that can be understood except at the macrolevel.

[DaShi]

I hear that if we stop acting as if we have free will, God will start the Rapture.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Aeson
It does matter though. It's not the destination (as if there could ever be a final destination worth getting to), but the journey, those things which happen to us along the way which can prepare us for the challenges ahead

Well said Aeson!