A New New Deal?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
@ Kid: Oh, but I think there IS a meter running. Each year we're running a government deficit...that's the sound of the meter running. Debt increasing = meter running.

And I think that if we focus only on the short term...what's good for right now (this quarter, in the parlance of the Corporation), we'll wind up making it worse for ourselves down the line. Just IMO, mind you.

-=Vel=-

Well, we're basically screwed since we already had a deficit and here we are with a recession or a depression. The deficit is sure to get larger especially with our problems in the ME. That might mean that we will try even harder to balance the budget. The more you look at it the more it looks like crap.

But Keynes said that there is more than one kind of equilibrium that the economy can be in. It's just as likely that the economy will be in an equilibrium with high unemployment. We could just go on like that indefinitely.

[Victor Galis]

Originally posted by Zkribbler

Obama's proposed middle-class tax break indicates a desire to return to the demand-supply economics of FDR. Put money into the pockets of the consumers so they can spend our way out of bad times. This system launched us into being an economic superpower before; no reason it won't work again.

Actually, it's what we've been doing this whole time. Except this time loose credit put money in the pockets of the middle class.

I would prefer no tax cuts and actual tax increases combined with spending cuts. The truth is we're $10 trillion in the hole and we have a yearly budget deficit of over half a trillion dollars even before you could things like the wars in Iraq & Afghanistan or the nearly $1 trillion which will be given to Wall St fat cats.

You'd prefer a massive recession?

The debt will NEVER be paid down. That's more evident than ever.

The real questions are when will the US have trouble getting additional money and will there be a default or just a massive devaluation of the dollar?

[Theben]

Originally posted by DanS
But that (in its worst form) still survives only in those areas untouched by the light of Reagan's glory -- some of our cities.

How many candles are on the altar you've set up in the nook?

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
Actually, it's what we've been doing this whole time. Except this time loose credit put money in the pockets of the middle class.

It put borrowed cash in the pockets of the middle class. Their net worth did not go up.

[Velociryx]

That's what passes as "wealth" for the middle class these days, Z...haven't you been paying attention?

-=Vel=-

[Zkribbler]

This is a "New Deal" thread. If the middle class actually gets wealth for a change rather than increased debt masquerading as wealth, then that's the new deal.

[KrazyHorse]

The "middle class" is the most pampered group in the US.

Middle class :

[Naked Gents Rut]

If the middle class actually gets wealth for a change rather than increased debt masquerading as wealth, then that's the new deal.

No one forced the American middle class to run up debt on consumption rather than saving and building wealth. It's their own damn fault.

[Fake Boris]

Who forced the capitalists to lend them money?

[Naked Gents Rut]

No one.

[Dinner]

The capitalists, I.E. banks, did however strip away people's right to a fresh start via bankruptcy by subverting the bankruptcy laws so that people would be trapped forever. **** them. Let people continue to make choices on how to lend or borrow but make sure usury is stopped and that people have the right to a fresh start if things get out of hand.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
The "middle class" is the most pampered group in the US.

Middle class :

But it keeps growing smaller?

JM

[Velociryx]

I disagree with KH...the most pampered group is, and always has been the "Leisure Class" - thus the name.

The middle class tries to have it good, and sometimes succeeds, but mostly they buy into the lies that big companies tell them, get suckered into things that are ferociously bad for them, and wind up getting played.

IMO, this is one part stupidity, but also one part big business savvy. It's hard to compete with a company throwing around multi-billion dollar budgets and hiring teams of psychologists to try and figure out how best to get you to take their bait.

I'm well aware that a lot of folks here won't agree with that last bit, and that's fine by me. As I said, that's just IMO, and I ain't the final authority on the matter, so...*shrug*

-=Vel=-

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


But it keeps growing smaller?

JM

According to what metric?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Velociryx
I disagree with KH...the most pampered group is, and always has been the "Leisure Class" - thus the name.

The middle class tries to have it good, and sometimes succeeds, but mostly they buy into the lies that big companies tell them, get suckered into things that are ferociously bad for them, and wind up getting played.

IMO, this is one part stupidity, but also one part big business savvy. It's hard to compete with a company throwing around multi-billion dollar budgets and hiring teams of psychologists to try and figure out how best to get you to take their bait.

I'm well aware that a lot of folks here won't agree with that last bit, and that's fine by me. As I said, that's just IMO, and I ain't the final authority on the matter, so...*shrug*

-=Vel=-

The middle class is the leisure class, if you are using the term as Thorstein Veblen used it. The leisure class by definition won't do what they consider inferior work.