Are African Americans doomed?

[Wezil]

Originally posted by Heraclitus


This is different from species how?

The problem is like with species, that they are disappearing at a far faster rate than new ones are appearing.

The people aren't. We are talking about cultures.

I guess a deeper understanding or definition of "culture" would be required before we could determine if they are dying off or being created faster. For instance you mention "english" speakers earlier. Do you think this is a single, monolithic culture or do you concede this would encompass many "cultures"?

Also the process isn't meritocratic like you seem to think, modern popculture is backed by strong government and corporate interests.

"meritocratic"? Interesting. No, not really in the short term but I think (hope?) over the longer term it will be. Britney Spears and violent video games are not likely going to last the test of time. The evolution of principles of justice seems to be progressing over the long term however.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Darius, you're just arguing about what it means when I say "they consider me black."

Oh no I do get it - it's just that your definition of "black" is broad enough to include ethnic whites in certain circumstances, and I don't dispute that you meant that.

What I'm arguing, rather, is that your definition is self-derived with absolutely no basis in actual reality, and if any of your supposed black friends had the opportunity to read what you've been spouting in this thread, they would laugh their asses off.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Darius871


If you'd like to recant that statement now, be my guest. You still haven't explained how any blacks' definition of blackness could under any circumstances include someone white.

People said that the african american community considered Pres. Clinton black.

JM

[Darius871]

"People have said" Bush is a Reptilian shapeshifter from Planet X too. People are idiots.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Darius871


I find it especially funny that you think you can just "read" what they think from such incredibly subtle implications, when at the same time you think my past posts on an interwebs forum, 90% of the time purely as devil's advocate for personal amusement, is a window into the soul that gives you a better understanding of my life experiences than any friend or family member could grasp. A laughable notion like that totally discredits your ability to read people.

I told you what they actually said. You're the one reading into what they think.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Comrade Snuggles


No they don't.

Have you ever been around a white racist and a black person, and the white person made racist comments in front of the black person, not offending the black person? That's because the black person agrees with the comments.

It's kind of like that. Black people freely say things about white people in front of me that I don't think they say in front of other white people.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Kidicious
I told you what they actually said. You're the one reading into what they think.

So you're citing that cryptic example as support for your point, and I reply that your interpretation sounds pretty thin, and yet I'm the one "reading into what they think?"

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Sandman


Species are (for the most part) not created by humans. Cultures are. If we can discard everything else we invent, why should cultures be different?

With todays technology we can create many new species, why are we fighting to preserve the spotted owl and not making a new better kind in our labs?


Because we don't know enough yet as to what constitutes a better owl, the same is true of cultures, all attempts so far as to scientifically determine which culture is "superior" have resulted in untold human suffering and only modest improvemente (as one can see from the position of Africans, Aborigines and Native Americans, the only real success story is Japan, but they themselves modified their old culture rather than abandoned it for something new).


I don't need to point out that such claims of cultural superiority where together with racial superiority often used by Fascist and Imperialist powers to force people into adopting their culture.

Yes culture is in many ways like technology, but now imagine a Luddite regime attacking and overpowering a smaller but more advanced foe and then banning PC's, Cell Phones and several medicines. Then imagine that some of the data that points to Jews having higher IQ's is true, then the Nazi state during WW2 in fact pushed human evolution back and lowered average IQ's in Europe. Imagine the Khmer Ruge ending the free market and deurbanizing an entire nation, pushing economic development back decades. All are examples of hybrid systems where the laws of evolution are overwritten chaotically by human caprice.

I claim that the advent of Emprie was equivalent to the advent of artificial selection and that Nationalism was equivalent to the advent of Genetic Engineering. They helped create systems that weren't natural in the sense that Darwinian evolution preserved the best, since humans with limited knowledge began meddling in natural selection searching for traits they considered optimal. But they weren't fully under human control either. This produced some improvement (the spread of civilization by empires) but when a radical new technology appeared (nationalism) humans began using it without really understanding what they where doing. And pop culture, the ultimate cultural parasite which was created by Corporate and Governmental interests could easily be compared to a artificial biological weapon.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Wezil
I guess a deeper understanding or definition of "culture" would be required before we could determine if they are dying off or being created faster. For instance you mention "english" speakers earlier. Do you think this is a single, monolithic culture or do you concede this would encompass many "cultures"?

I would consider English speakers members of the same family of cultures like perhaps Primates in the animal kingdom.


Americans are clearly different from Scots or South Africans.


And I see nothing wrong with a rapidly expanding and evolving culture as long as in the long term diversity is restored.

An example of this is the Roman Emprie, whose culture and language have formed a bedrock from which several other successful and different cultures have emerged.

But the problem is that with today's technology it is far easier to keep a large chunk of people cultural uniform. Creating new cultures is a increasingly difficult process, while older cultures are vanishing or converging. And as you know the fewer species an ecosystem has, the higher the chance of it being inefficient.



An example is Britain which has arguably been significantly Americanized in the past decades. Another are the global trends of Westernization, Islamization and Sinification.

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by VJ

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/preside...truman_01.html

Why do you consider him a geek?

[RGBVideo]

Why do you consider him a geek?

well eh, I suppose it is far too long to watch. didn't remember it was such a long biography

why? some things to consider: his education, his relationship with women in general, his lifestyle in prohibition-era Kansas City.

[RGBVideo]

no, i'm not going to tell you about them, you need to find out about them for yourself. writing about history has gotten me into positions of ridicule earlier in apolyton (several times, in fact) ; you never knows what sort of popular myths you might encounter.

[Darius871]

I've read Jefferson had high-functioning autism, so he's a pretty good candidate for geekiness.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Have you ever been around a white racist and a black person, and the white person made racist comments in front of the black person, not offending the black person? That's because the black person agrees with the comments.

It's kind of like that. Black people freely say things about white people in front of me that I don't think they say in front of other white people.

Shall we tell him about Comrade Snuggle's family?

[Kidlicious]

Black women