Are African Americans doomed?

[Kidlicious]

No those kind of people try to hard. You've got to keep it real. You can't try to act too black to be accepted by blacks. That won't earn their trust. You have to be yourself.

[Impaler[WrG]]

All trends point towards what is commonly call the "Brazillianization" or America. Racial mixing will blur the sharper racial lines that currently exist but as in Brazil undiluted racial groups will continue to exist. Indeed at any time in history when ethnic groups mixed the result is always the creation of a blended spectrum which preserves even if just at the margins the original groups bloodlines intact.

Based on the historic trends we will see Mestizo ethnicity continue to grow due to two factors, immigration and intermarriage. white-mestizo marriage is the most common type of interracial marriage in the US and has always been viewed more leniently then black-white marriage. Now because mestizo are already by definition a mix of white/amerindian any mestizo-white union produces more mestizo's and a broad blend from will develop as exists in Brazil. The term Hispanic within the US will become much more or a cultural term as many white Hispanics culturally assimilate and cease to speak Spanish at all.

On the other hand black-white intermarriage rates will remain at a modest though slowly rising rate and the result will be the continuation of the existing trend, the creation of a small population of mixed black-white individuals which will be mix back into the black population lightening it.

Asians and other newer overseas immigrants will be absorbed into the white population as fast as they arrive and their distinct cultural identities will be absorbed too fast to become rooted sub-cultures. The main driver is that overseas immigrants must cross an ocean and thus can't illegally immigrate in volume, rather they have to have desirable skills which necessarily means they are economically on par with the white population and geographically dispersed at mid-high paying jobs and living in more liberal suburbs ware their chances of marrying whites are high.

So in a generation or two I see the US population consisting of roughly 10% black-African American, 3% mixed black-white heritage, 30% broadly blended Mestizo->white with no clear divisions and surprisingly sparse Spanish being spoken, 1% Native American, 1% Asian almost entirely first generation immigrants, 3% Asian-white mixed, and the remaining 52% white population just barely a majority.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Riesstiu IV
This is how I imagine Kid:

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Black people (cultural) believe that society is divided into blacks and whites. That's probably hard for a person like you to understand because many white people don't see society like that. I'm saying that black people see me as a black person in this way, not that my skin is actually black.

Ohhh, now I'm just too much of a sheltered crackerman to "understand." Let's get one thing straight: you don't know one goddamned thing about where I've been, whom I've met, or what I know.

What I can say is that every black person I've ever met would laugh in your face if you said what you're saying out loud to them.

Do "most" blacks (because yes, they are not the monolithic entity you apparently suppose) view society as "divided" into categories, the lower one of which might include a honky like you? Yes, insofar as poor whites and blacks are mutually stomped down by "the man," namely rich whites and their Uncle Tom lackeys.

Does that mean a white person's being in that category, being open to genuine friendships with black people, enjoying black music & other facets of black culture, having an uncharacteristically"real" personality, and having gained the trust and affinity of some blacks make him "black"? No, he can only hope to be a very blackesque white person at best, or the pasty wigger wannabe "that guy" whom black "friends" snicker about behind his back at worst.

You don't believe me? Again, just go up to any of your black acquaintances and actually ask them straight-up if you're considered "black," instead of deluding yourself into thinking you know what's going on in their minds. Or, if you're too chicken-**** to ask that simple question, which I'm sure you are, maybe tone it down to ask (without any leading) whether their definition of "black" is broad enough to theoretically include ethnic whites under any circumstances. What was the response?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Darius871
Ohhh, now I'm just too much of a sheltered crackerman to "understand." Let's get one thing straight: you don't know one goddamned thing about where I've been, whom I've met, or what I know.

I know a lot about you actually from what you say and what you believe. In fact, I bet I know more about you than a lot of your friends and family know.

Do "most" blacks (because yes, they are not the monolithic entity you apparently suppose) view society as "divided" into categories, the lower one of which might include a honky like you? Yes, insofar as poor whites and blacks are mutually stomped down by "the man," namely rich whites and their Uncle Tom lackeys.

No. They believe society is divided among rich and poor, but also white and black. They believe whites are generally prejudice and that they treat blacks unfairly.

Does that mean a white person's being in that category, being open to genuine friendships with black people, enjoying black music & other facets of black culture, having an unwhitely "real" personality, and having gained the trust and affinity of some blacks makes him/her "black"? No, he/she can only hope to be a very blackesque white person at best, or that wigger wannabe that black "friends" snicker about behind his/her back.

No, no. I don't even like black music and such that much. That's not why they consider me like them. They consider me like them because I genuinely treat them with respect and understand that white people are more prejudice than they claim. I also have a more similar world view as them.

You don't believe me? Again, just go up to any of your black acquaintances and ask them if you're considered "black," instead of deluding yourself into thinking you know what's going on in their minds. What was the response?

That's just stupid. I'm not going to do that. Only a white person would even think of that.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Kidicious
I know a lot about you actually from what you say and what you believe. In fact, I bet I know more about you than a lot of your friends and family know.

Originally posted by Kidicious
No. They believe society is divided among rich and poor, but also white and black. They believe whites are generally prejudice and that they treat blacks unfairly.

I haven't denied that. What I deny is that a white being A) poor and B) not prejudiced makes that white "black."

Originally posted by Kidicious
No, no. I don't even like black music and such that much. That's not why they consider me like them.

Point out to me where I ever said you adopted black music or culture. That whole paragraph was referring to a hypothetical white person who acts as black as possible, which was still far from the state of "being" black.

Originally posted by Kidicious
They consider me like them because I genuinely treat them with respect and understand that white people are more prejudice than they claim. I also have a more similar world view as them.

Yes, which makes you an unusually acceptable white person, to the point of being "like" them, which I've never contested. It's quite a leap to go from being "like" them to being "black" in their eyes, which is my only point.

Originally posted by Kidicious
That's just stupid. I'm not going to do that.

So in other words, your entire theory is self-derived within your own mind, without any explicit input from any actual black person. Thanks, that's what I wanted to clear up.

I'll repeat my DanS'ing you missed: "Or, if you're too chicken-**** to ask that simple question, which I'm sure you are, maybe tone it down to ask (without any leading) whether their definition of "black" is broad enough to theoretically include ethnic whites under any circumstances." Rephrase it however you like, but don't tell me you don't know one black person who couldn't take it seriously and give an honest response.

Originally posted by Kidicious
Only a white person would even think of that.

A cynical person would say that comment borders on racism.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Heraclitus


This is different from species how?

Species are (for the most part) not created by humans. Cultures are. If we can discard everything else we invent, why should cultures be different?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Darius871
I haven't denied that. What I deny is that a white being A) poor and B) not prejudiced makes that white "black."

It's not just that I'm not prejudice. It's that I agree that white people are prejudice to a similar extent that black people do. It's that I understand the suttleties.

Yes, which makes you an unusually acceptable white person, to the point of being "like" them, which I've never contested. It's quite a leap to go from being "like" them to being "black" in their eyes, which is my only point.

I've already said, that I'm not actually black. I'd be suprised if any of them thought that. What I said is that they consider me to be one of them. The things they say is representative of that. The're not even conscious of what the're doing sometimes. Afterwards they sometimes say, "I just said us black people," referring to me as well, and laughed.

[Jon Miller]

For some reason I have thought that Kid's ex was an african american?

JM

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
For some reason I have thought that Kid's ex was an african american?

JM

mixed

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Kidicious

It's not just that I'm not prejudice. It's that I agree that white people are prejudice to a similar extent that black people do. It's that I understand the suttleties.

Fine, add that clarification, or 10, and I won't disagree in the least. That still has nothing to do with whether you're "like" blacks or "considered a" black.

Originally posted by Kidicious
I've already said, that I'm not actually black. I'd be suprised if any of them thought that. What I said is that they consider me to be one of them.

Yes, they consider you to be "one of them," i.e. the downtrodden, or those who are separate from the dominant white culture, or something along those lines. In contrast, what you said before was:

Originally posted by Kidicious
my black friends actually consider me black.

If you'd like to recant that statement now, be my guest. You still haven't explained how any blacks' definition of blackness could under any circumstances include someone white.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
For some reason I have thought that Kid's ex was an african american?

JM

Impossible; glass is the white man's crack.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Kidicious


The strange thing is a lot of my black friends actually consider me black.

No they don't.

[Kidlicious]

Darius, you're just arguing about what it means when I say "they consider me black." I'm not interested in continuing.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Kidicious
The things they say is representative of that. The're not even conscious of what the're doing sometimes. Afterwards they sometimes say, "I just said us black people," referring to me as well, and laughed.

I find it especially funny that you think you can just "read" what they think from such incredibly subtle implications, when at the same time you think my past posts on an interwebs forum, 90% of the time purely as devil's advocate for personal amusement, is a window into the soul that gives you a better understanding of my life experiences than any friend or family member could grasp. A laughable notion like that totally discredits your ability to read people.