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The Canadian Federal Election will definitely be October 14th

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  • #91
    Originally posted by Wezil


    I could just as easily say Dion's Green Shift gaff cost him the election.

    Perhaps-- But I see the selection of Dion and the Green Shift policy as key integral decisions of the Liberal Party. Those were not gaffes or more minor policy decisions ( like some "culture cuts"). They were reasoned serious decisions. The fact that the party decided so badly IMHO is a negative to be assigned to the entire party
    You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

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    • #92
      Yes, I can agree with that. It's possible to second guess many aspects of the campiagn. You know what they say about hindsight.

      I've heard murmers of Kennedy running for the leadership again. In view of his "kingmaker" status wrt Dion I just don't see him winning. He has proven bad judgment.
      "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
      "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

      Comment

      • #93
        Originally posted by Wezil




        And the NDP are up in popular vote. As are the Greens. Don't know about the BQ... The Libs were the losers all round at the expense of all parties. Asher has been pointing out for weeks what an absolutely awful candidate Dion was. Doesn't say much for the guy that can't get a majority against him, particularly on his third try.

        ..
        Well

        1. as an anglophone he will always have a tougher time in Quebec IMHO

        2. It is three tries but they are in a relatively short period of time and in the face of a country that has a significant number of Liberal strongholds. Or do you deny that there exist a significant number of seats that the Liberal only lose in pretty exceptional circumstances?

        3. I acknowledge that Harper did not run a great campaign-- heck I think he hardly managed mediocre. I was surprised at the number of issues he let get away from him. So I agree on some of your fundamentals.

        4. How would Harper have done against a better contender? Worse . But he improved his standing and his key now will be to govern well and to be viewed as governing well through what could be some tough times ahead. If he manages that, the Conservatives win a majority next time regardless of the opposition. Unfortunately for Harper, people are rarely taht satisfied with government no matter what they do, if economic times are tough
        You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

        Comment

        • #94
          Originally posted by Wezil
          Yes, I can agree with that. It's possible to second guess many aspects of the campiagn. You know what they say about hindsight.

          I've heard murmers of Kennedy running for the leadership again. In view of his "kingmaker" status wrt Dion I just don't see him winning. He has proven bad judgment.
          I hope Kennedy wins, if only because he'd be my MP.

          My SO's home is in Harper's riding, my home would be in Kennedy's riding. Fear our influence of letter-writing.
          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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          • #95
            Flubber - Point #4

            Of course how Harper manages in the next 12-18 months will affect the next vote and I agree with your premise about tough times being hard on incumbents. That said, do you think the next year will be better than the last year (economically)? If not, how does Harper gain?
            "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
            "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

            Comment

            • #96
              It's pretty remarkable how utterly ineffectual the Greens are. They get more 2/3 of the Bloc's popular vote, and can't carry a single riding. Why do they bother?
              "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
              -Bokonon

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              • #97
                They are trying to get elected Ramo and indeed their numbers grew yet again. The BQ only runs in 1 province whereas the Greens are country wide. Hence many BQ members and no Greens with similar popular support %.

                The best hope for the Greens is for us to move past our FPTP system.
                "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                Comment

                • #98
                  Originally posted by Wezil
                  Yes, I can agree with that. It's possible to second guess many aspects of the campiagn. You know what they say about hindsight.

                  I've heard murmers of Kennedy running for the leadership again. In view of his "kingmaker" status wrt Dion I just don't see him winning. He has proven bad judgment.

                  So who is the next leader for the Liberals?

                  Ignatieuf? I saw his CBC interview last night and maybe they caught him at a bad moment but he was about as warm as an icicle-- Actually he was relatively hostile to the reporter who was simply asking some of the obvious questions about party leadership. I did respect him though for stating that he was part of the party leadership that was involved in all the key decisions.


                  He also avoided the mistake of throwing Dion under the bus. While he probably wants Dion gone, I doubt he wants to be seen as the one wielding the axe.
                  You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                  Comment

                  • #99
                    Either Dion or Iggy will be the next leader. I'm not personally thrilled with either of them but do think they will have what it takes to win.

                    No one has the knives out for Dion yet (that would be unseemly) but I could swear I heard the knives being sharpened. Dion will be sporting some cutlery out his back if he doesn't step aside in a reasonable amount of time (within a month).
                    "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                    "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                    Comment

                    • #100
                      Originally posted by Wezil
                      They are trying to get elected Ramo and indeed their numbers grew yet again. The BQ only runs in 1 province whereas the Greens are country wide. Hence many BQ members and no Greens with similar popular support %.

                      The best hope for the Greens is for us to move past our FPTP system.
                      Sure, but what are the chances of that? It seems more reasonable to follow the BQ's strategy. Concentrate resources where you have a shot at winning, and play up regionalism.
                      "Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
                      -Bokonon

                      Comment

                      • #101
                        Originally posted by Ramo
                        It's pretty remarkable how utterly ineffectual the Greens are. They get more 2/3 of the Bloc's popular vote, and can't carry a single riding. Why do they bother?
                        Why? Because they believe in what they are saying.

                        If they continue to gain votes, the seats will come in time. AS it is , this was the first time that I think the media and the other party leaders really treated the Greens and their leader as if it were a REAL party. While they were not successful in electing someone, their profile was raised immeasurably and I believe that their popular vote entitles them to some funding.

                        They may yet fade back into obscurity but given that the environment seems to be an issue that will be of increasing importance as we go forward, its probably more likely that within two elections we could see a few Green candidates. heck with her national profile , May could probably have taken a seat this time if she hadn't chosen to take on a Conservative heavyweight
                        You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                        Comment

                        • #102
                          Following the BQ example is not wise. Although they get seats they will not (cannot) ever form government. Always outside looking in.

                          The Greens need to continue with the current plan.

                          Flubber - It was not wise for May to run in that riding and many Greens were upset that she tried. Luckily for May she has the Harper advantage - no one else is capable of leading the party.
                          "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                          "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

                          Comment

                          • #103
                            Originally posted by Asher


                            I hope Kennedy wins, if only because he'd be my MP.

                            My SO's home is in Harper's riding, my home would be in Kennedy's riding. Fear our influence of letter-writing.
                            Doesn't he know that running for the leadership of a country with the last name "Kennedy" is a very, very bad idea...
                            <Reverend> IRC is just multiplayer notepad.
                            I like your SNOOPY POSTER! - While you Wait quote.

                            Comment

                            • #104
                              Sure, but what are the chances of that? It seems more reasonable to follow the BQ's strategy. Concentrate resources where you have a shot at winning, and play up regionalism.
                              Yes, but where? Besides there's already too much regionalism in Canada already.
                              "The purpose of studying economics is not to acquire a set of ready-made answers to economic questions, but to learn how to avoid being deceived by economists."
                              -Joan Robinson

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                              • #105
                                On a more serious note....

                                I have two new avatar pictures to assign. Does anyone have some suggestions? I enjoy making bets more than collecting on them...
                                "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
                                "I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain

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