McCain refused to meet unconditionaly with our....Alies???

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by SlowwHand



In what parallel universe?

Spain pulling troops out of Iraq was reasonable. I want to bring our troops out of there too.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Heraclitus


Or maybe we should ally with Mother Russia instead.

Yeah, there you go. Might have a tough sell to the Germans and points East, but...

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Vesayen


Spain pulling troops out of Iraq was reasonable. I want to bring our troops out of there too.

Well THAT makes it reasonable.

[Vesayen]

Spain has no stake or interest in Iraq, nor does the U.S., why the heck should they risk the lives of their own soldiers there?

[Lancer]

Right, "stake or interest", got it. In Iraq... the mideast. Got it.

I've cut my driving in half but I still use gas. The economy of the world runs on the stuff. Driving to work, farm machinery, school buses, Disneyland...

While I'm all for huge alternative energy projects to get us off the stuff, alot of people will be heating their houses in winter for years to come with oil. Price at the pump went way up and people screamed. Wait until their home heating oil tank is empty, and you'll see some things you've never seen before.

[Vesayen]

Clearly invading Iraq promoted Spain and the U.S. interest in having affordable oil?

Oh, wait....

[Lancer]

The invasion was a mistake. Since we're there however if we use oil we have an interest in the outcome.

[TheStinger]

lets face it the US are still annoyed that the Franco's gone and Spain is no longer a friend in teh fight against international communism

[Dry]

Originally posted by Lancer


What is an allied nation? Allied nations hang together in tough times so they don't hang alone. I can see McCain not meeting the Spanish government because they don't fit the criteria. I don't want a US pres making happy with such europowers and saying they are saving the alliance, or claiming to undo the damage caused by the Bush administration by getting cozy with wimps and claiming we are somehow stronger.

Allied nations do not lie to each other in order to force one another into war under false pretext, allied nations, do not argue that 'As a vassal state you have to do as you are told' (US ambassador in Belgium in a belgian TV debate).

Well, let me recall the events:
- US got attacked on 9/11
- Proof the talibans are behind the attack is acknowledge by everybody
- Allies join US in liberation of Afghanistan, home of the Talibans.
- US accuses Saddam Hussein to support Talibans and to stockpile WMDs.
- Allies are skeptic and ask for proof.
- No proof is provided, US ask allies to trust them on their word.
- No other intelligence agency than US or UK can find evidence that talibans are allied with Hussein, and, although they suspect Hussein to have WMDs, although some are tempted to believe US intelligence on their words, they still have a problem: no one is able to provide evidence.
- Because of the weakness of evidence, the war against Irak is difficult to justify. Countries like France, Germany and other smaller european nations, warn US that their POs will not support a war without more solid arguments. European POs are not ready for what sounds like an unjustified war.
- US goes hysterical and call those Euro countries 'traitors' and 'cowards' (and 'vassals') and decide to go without them. After all, they are the most powerfull nation in the world, Iraq will fall and the rest of the world will learn to fear the might of the US.
- Spain, despite the hesitations of her PO, decide to join the US in the Irak war. Part of spanish PO thinks they have been lied to by their government a first time.
[- In a few internal affairs, Spanish government seems not to hesitate to lie to their PO. People start to be unhappy about what to appear to be an arrogant gov. for which lying is a perfectly valid form of ruling]
- Spain is targeted by terror attacks
- Spanish government says it has nothing to do with muslim terrorists, and that in fact ETA is behind the attacks.
- Enquiry shows that is well muslim terrorists who are guilty for the attacks.
- Spanish PO says 'Enough is enough. Government lied to us for the last time. They really take us for idiots'. On the following elections, spanish voters decide to stop the comedy and vote for a party who thinks the war is not justified.

What is the damage caused by the Bush administration?
Lying to POs and to allies, excercing military pression and economical blackmail upon smaller allies is morally acceptable when it is about public affairs and involves life, death or huge money.
And if those 'allies' do not comply or break, call them traitors and cowards... and never appologize, of course.

[Lancer]

The US and allies that didn't run are winning Iraq without Spain. I imagine we'll be doing alot without Spain in the future.

Btw, if a US ambassador sdaid that in a debate he should lose his job, the idiot.

[Pekka]

Unconditionally? What does that even mean? Even if I was the president of my own country with population 10, I'd still have conditions meeting the leaders of other countries. We'd have to arrange it, have our people looking into it, it's not like I'll come running to you, I'm the freaking president. I've got things to do. Unconditional? I don't think so.

But yes, I will meet the president, sure, but there will be conditions. I can't be demanded to a meeting. I'll come if I wish to do so. Just like any other president. Also, I've never heard that Spain has a president???

[onodera]

Originally posted by Heraclitus


Or maybe we should ally with Mother Russia instead.

Well, the Entente actually *was* GB+France+Russia.
Also, I approve of this picture.

[Lancer]

Need to work out who buys the first round.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by onodera

Well, the Entente actually *was* GB+France+Russia.
Also, I approve of this picture.

You can forget GB, but maybe the French someday. Depends on if they ever get scared of the Germans again.

[Barnabas]

I think he confused Zapatero for some Latin America commie, you can't blame McCain, after all Spaniards have the same surnames as all that brown people below the USA