Obama and Abortion

[Q Classic]

Ok, regarding a 'woman's right to choose' she asked something like "what about my rights?" You see, she got cerebral palsy from being aborted. Perhaps she considered that being aborted contravened her rights.

Why should her rights take precedence over the rights of the person housing her?

[Q Classic]

(I mean, admittedly, I don't like partial birth abortions, but I'm curious as to your answer to the question.)

[Arrian]

1. What is the current state of the law on partial-birth abortion? Why/when is the procedure used. Is there a doctor in the house?

2. What was Obama voting against, exactly?

3. In light of that, is this a real issue concerning his Presidential campaign, or an emotion-driven smear to paint him as a baby killer? I suspect the latter, obviously.

As for this particular woman's experience, yikes. I can't watch the vid, so maybe someone can explain: why her mom had the (failed) abortion - was it a medical reason (isn't that the only way to have a partial-birth abortion??)? I thought the way it works is if the mother's life is in danger, it is permissable to choose to save the mother, even if it means killing the baby. Am I wrong on that?

-Arrian

[Lancer]

You should write to her and ask her. Her train of thought is often lost because the oxygen was shut off to her brain during the abortion, same reason why she has cerebral palsy, but she does ok for her situation. She should be able to manage a reply.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Lancer
You should write to her and ask her. Her train of thought is often lost because the oxygen was shut off to her brain during the abortion, same reason why she has cerebral palsy, but she does ok for her situation. She should be able to manage a reply.

He's not debating her. He's debating you.

-Arrian

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Arrian
1. What is the current state of the law on partial-birth abortion? Why/when is the procedure used. Is there a doctor in the house?

2. What was Obama voting against, exactly?

3. In light of that, is this a real issue concerning his Presidential campaign, or an emotion-driven smear to paint him as a baby killer? I suspect the latter, obviously.

As for this particular woman's experience, yikes. I can't watch the vid, so maybe someone can explain: why her mom had the (failed) abortion - was it a medical reason (isn't that the only way to have a partial-birth abortion??)? I thought the way it works is if the mother's life is in danger, it is permissable to choose to save the mother, even if it means killing the baby. Am I wrong on that?

-Arrian

Find a place and watch the videos. They speak volumes. The first is a nurse whose job it was to discard live babies. They say on the site that she's the only one to stun O'Riely into speachlessness, or something like that. Her interview tends to put one into shock. The other interview is with one of those who survived an abortion and has a message. Worth finding a place to watch.

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Arrian


He's not debating her. He's debating you.

-Arrian

Asking me a question actually, and I'm not here to argue with anyone. I'm passing the question on to the woman who can best answer it.

[Arrian]

I absolutely hate Bill O'Rielly, for reasons that go well beyond his politics. So no, I'm not going to spend time watching the video at home, particularly if it does not contain the answers to the specific questions I asked (which, based on your post, it does not). If it answers them, maybe I'll temporarily set aside my loathing of that ******* and watch it later.

I'm passing the question on to the woman who can best answer it

-Arrian

[Lancer]

whatever...

[Arrian]

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm

On an issue like partial birth abortion, I strongly believe that the state can properly restrict late-term abortions. I have said so repeatedly. All I've said is we should have a provision to protect the health of the mother, and many of the bills that came before me didn't have that.

...

In 1997, Obama voted against SB 230, which would have turned doctors into felons by banning so-called partial-birth abortion, & against a 2000 bill banning state funding. Although these bills included an exception to save the life of the mother, they didn't include anything about abortions necessary to protect the health of the mother. The legislation defined a fetus as a person, & could have criminalized virtually all abortion.

It sounds to me like these bills were, as usual, salvos in the war over abortion (all abortion).

Now, if abortion is a huge issue for you, (and you're pro-life)... um, yeah, vote for McCain. He will put more right-wing judges on the SCOTUS and the religious right will have its shot at overturning Roe v. Wade (and perhaps going further, of course). You were gonna vote for McCain the whole time anyway, of course.

-Arrian

[Lancer]

Originally posted by Lancer
You guys need to go to the OP and check out the videos to know what this discussion is about.

These babys are being aborted and surviving the process. They are then being either killed or allowed to die alone of neglect.

Gianna was just such a baby. Watch her interview, watch the O'Riely interview with the nurse in the first link.

[Arrian]

Since I literally cannot do that for ~10 hours, I'll go with this, which you linked in the OP:

Can you imagine not giving babies their basic human rights, no matter how they entered our world? My name is Gianna Jessen, born 31 years ago after a failed abortion. I’m a survivor, as are many others…but if Barack Obama had his way, I wouldn’t be here.

Unfortunately, Barack Obama voted four times against affording these babies their most basic human right. I have serious concerns about Senator Obama’s record and views on this issue, given he voted against these protections four times as a state Senator. Just as abuse victims share their stories to educate the public, fight for the common good and hope that as a result politicians do what’s right, I felt it was important to come forward and give these new born babies a voice.

I am living proof these babies have a right to live, and I invite you to learn more about Senator Obama’s record on this important issue.

-Abortion Survivor Gianna Jessen

1. Obviously, this is an appeal to emotion (Barack Obama would've KILLED ME! Why does he hate babies?).

2. Obama's position appears to be that the proceedure should only be used in response to a threat to the health of the mother. I personally would go further and say it should only be used in response to a clear threat to the life of the mother*, but perhaps a doctor can help us split the hairs here. Also, as noted in the bits I quoted, it's pretty clear that the bills he voted against had other add-ons that made them broader than just this particular type of abortion (for instance, defining fetuses as human beings = all** abortion is murder).

* - it does appear to be a method used to abort mid-to-late term pregnancies. Basically around the 6 month mark. That's gettin' pretty late.

** - perhaps not, depending on how fetus is defined.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

This, btw, may be a useful article on the subject (reading it now):

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5168163

edit: crap, broken link. Not sure why. It's pretty high on the list of hits if you google partial birth abortion, though.

-Arrian

[Patroklos]

Jon Miller

And Arrian, pro-lifers are far from all being religious nuts.

[-Jrabbit]

The whole idea of men legislating what women do reproductively is patronizing and stupid in the first place. And let's face it, male legislators are by far in the majority. This is one of the oft-overlooked reasons that so many women are bitter on this topic.