Obama and Abortion

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So, he can't have an opinion on the matter because he agrees on the ends of your argument and not on how you get there?

I also agree women should have abortions whenever they want. So suck on it .

I disagree with how other people get to the same conclusions I do all the time. I don't sit here and argue with them about it. That's stupid. What's the point?

And btw, we are all men here, so what are even doing having this discussion then according to your viewpoint?

When did I say men shouldn't discuss abortion?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


What about saying abortion is immoral because the fetus is a life?

When you are done knocking down strawmen, please answer that.

plants are also alive. Do you consider it immoral to eat them?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kidicious
I disagree with how other people get to the same conclusions I do all the time. I don't sit here and argue with them about it. That's stupid. What's the point?

What's the point of posting here at all?

When did I say men shouldn't discuss abortion?

In essence that is what you are saying. Give deference to the woman; what men decide is secondary. Shouldn't we all just listen to what the women say and refrain from discussion if we don't have to face pregnancy?

plants are also alive. Do you consider it immoral to eat them?

Of course not, but I don't know anyone who is advocating eating 30 year old people, who are also alive. But can you see where some people would find a human fetus a different thing than a plant. And some would find their cat or dog a vastly different thing than a plant?

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
What's the point of posting here at all?

Don't most people intend to argue successfully for positions that they support? Why would you intend to argue successfully for positions that you oppose? The very idea of that undermines apolyton off-topic forum.

In essence that is what you are saying. Give deference to the woman; what men decide is secondary. Shouldn't we all just listen to what the women say and refrain from discussion if we don't have to face pregnancy?

No. What I'm saying is that women should decide whether it is legal or not. Decide /= discuss. That would be like excluding 17 year olds from all political discussion because they are't able to vote yet.

plants are also alive. Do you consider it immoral to eat them?

Of course not, but I don't know anyone who is advocating eating 30 year old people, who are also alive. But can you see where some people would find a human fetus a different thing than a plant. And some would find their cat or dog a vastly different thing than a plant?

I've already made the point that most people actually consider fetuses to be more like plants than humans.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Don't most people intend to argue successfully for positions that they support? Why would you intend to argue successfully for positions that you oppose? The very idea of that undermines apolyton off-topic forum.

Because we can see the other side and feel your techniques for getting where you've gotten is wrong. And wish to prevent that wrongness in other aspects.

No. What I'm saying is that women should decide whether it is legal or not. Decide /= discuss. That would be like excluding 17 year olds from all political discussion because they are't able to vote yet.

Why should men waste time discussing the issue at all if they are not allowed to decide upon it? 17 year olds, at least, will be able to vote, so it prepares them for participating in the political process.

The question also becomes who else should we exclude from deciding policy questions in what issues?

I've already made the point that most people actually consider fetuses to be more like plants than humans.

And I think that a lot of people would strongly disagree with that.

[UnOrthOdOx]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Of course not, but I don't know anyone who is advocating eating 30 year old people, who are also alive.

Feed the homeless to the hungry!

Seriously, there are cultures out there that do practice cannibalism as a part of funerary practices. I'ld advocate their right to continue this.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Because we can see the other side and feel your techniques for getting where you've gotten is wrong.

I don't understand why you care if they got there the wrong way. Can you tell me?

And wish to prevent that wrongness in other aspects.

Why not just argue against it in those other aspects.

Another reason why I'm against it is because it causes confusion. There's nothing more anoying than someone saying, "You think I'm a _______ "

No. What I'm saying is that women should decide whether it is legal or not. Decide /= discuss. That would be like excluding 17 year olds from all political discussion because they are't able to vote yet.

Why should men waste time discussing the issue at all if they are not allowed to decide upon it? 17 year olds, at least, will be able to vote, so it prepares them for participating in the political process.

I don't think any of us is here to prepare ourselves for the political process. We are here to argue for what we believe. We might also learn things, which is good, but that's not why we come here.

The question also becomes who else should we exclude from deciding policy questions in what issues?

go on.

And I think that a lot of people would strongly disagree with that.

Religious nuts who have funerals for aborted fetuses? I think they do that as protest more than anything.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kidicious
I don't understand why you care if they got there the wrong way. Can you tell me?

Because I sometimes consider the means as important. Everything isn't just to an ends. The way you get to ideas is very important, especially as it comes to other things.

Why not just argue against it in those other aspects.

Why not do both? Not just try to change your mind as to the ends, but as to the means, so that your ends will come to the same conclusion on a variety of things.

I don't think any of us is here to prepare ourselves for the political process. We are here to argue for what we believe. We might also learn things, which is good, but that's not why we come here.

Why does it matter that we come here to argue? I mean people yell at others for arguing hypotheticals all the time (ie, that will never happen so why argue it). Part of the discussion and arguing and cajoling is to convince others to make the right decisions when it comes time to petition representatives or vote.

Religious nuts who have funerals for aborted fetuses? I think they do that as protest more than anything.

No, there are far more people than that who think fetuses are closer to cats (or name a sentient animal) than plants.

[Patroklos]

Women don't "commit" pregnancy. They become pregnant. sorry if you are unable to see the clear difference in that.

Virgin Marys, every one!

Gepap

Gepap and Kid

Honestly, you have been completely destroyed in this thread on so many levels it is truely impressive.

[GePap]

Ahh Patti, as deluded as always. How sad.

But you should be proud of your "most deluded" award.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
No, there are far more people than that who think fetuses are closer to cats (or name a sentient animal) than plants.

That's not contrary to my claim.

[Patroklos]

God you're lame. Your comebacks are worse than your arguements, which I suppose is an accomplishment so

[Kidlicious]

You're just a hack. No one cares about your claims.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Kidicious
That's not contrary to my claim.

I think it somewhat is. Try to kill someone's cat and see the response you get .

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


I think it somewhat is. Try to kill someone's cat and see the response you get .

A cat and someone's cat are different animals. Go back to my lab theoretical. You might just save your own cat. You wouldn't save just any old cat.